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I have tried almost everything, from welding nuts to the heels and toes so I could thread in studs to brazing on the borium. Hardfacing does make shoes last longer if you run them in the rocks like we do here but it is slippery.

Bigger problem in the real rocky stuff is wearing the nail heads off. I have one spot I pack into where there is a 3/4 mile hill that is solid decomposing granite. I have to stop at the bottom and re-nail the shoes or they start clinking up and down. I hate that ride for this reason, even though it is quite scenic!

I have seen easy boots with conveyor belting material bonded on for use on paved roads. Horse people are quite the innovators.!

There are different size particles available in borium. The coarser (smaller number grain size) is better for traction. The finer size (larger number) is better to hard face for wear resistance.

Putting on dots will work for wear resistance by lifting the steel shoe. The problem as mentioned is too much traction. That's the same problem here - timing application and removal of borium "ice shoes" to minimize the horses time on dirt with them. Another problem is that more borium is not necessarily better. High points can also provide too much traction and not allow enough slip for movement, stopping or turning.

The better way for horses on pavement is a "wash" of fine particles on the toe and heels. This method resists wear without excessive traction.

dennis-
You can get borium-topped nails that may help your out. Another way is to apply fine-grained borium to the nails (prior to driving!) with a small torch tip. Use a "junk" hammer to drive these. They'll damage a hammer face.

I never thought of " hardfacing the nail" so to speak. The chips I have are quite large. If I had to guess, the average chip weighs 5-10 grains.

Sounds like you have drill-tek. Is it chunks of carbide in a brass matrix?

You would need stoody borium to hard face the nail heads.

borium or drill tec both work. but to blame it for lame ponies is a stretch. those amish horses go lame anyway from miles and miles of roads. i have seen them limping so bad i felt like shooting the horse and driver. driver first. if they have to go somewhere and he is lame too bad he is going to go. just a tool to them.

i have used 2 amish farriers in the past and seen a lot of this.
go to a sale in amish country and watch what cripples they bring in.

has anybody used the borim nails. i looked them up online but just figured they would wallow out the holes.

The nail is not made of borium, the nail heads are "topped" with it.

i understand - what else would you call them?

so you got borium headed nails in soft iron holes. would it drive the nail on into the hole - usually a nail head wears off pretty quick which could keep the nail from wearing the hole of the shoe out.

if they worked i would try em.
i get some used drill tec shoes sometimes that have been used once and removed for winter. the amish farriers will usually give you dril tec if you ask for borium.

Borium is most certainly not the only thing to blame for lame horses that run up and down paved roads all day, but it's by no means a stretch to say it contributes.

I'd never heard of borium topped nails before, that'd be a neat trick. Especially when you're running the shoes a second go-round. The only time I've had trouble with nail heads wearing off was when I reshod the horse with the same shoes and the crease wasn't deep enough to hide the head. Come to think of it, it'd be like 8 caulks already there. hmmmm

Quick question, how many of you guys fill all the nail holes, and if not, which ones do you leave open and why?

I put in six, and don't nail behind the widest part of the hoof.

6 most times. 8 sometimes if i am going to be in a lot of rock.

dad always put in 8- with big nails. i grew up with some of the biggest gobs of drill tec on shoes you ever seen. now i hardly ever use it.

do any of you folks have amish nearby?

i worked around them for 20 yrs in ohio and seen some real funny things.

And most of those animals do a good job at keeping their riders on their backs. The biggest mistake I see is novice riders not letting the horse have his head when they encounter tricky terrain.

What I have is a mess of carbide slivers in a crude looking brass matrix. I got it from a well driller here locally that rebuilds well bits. He did not use this stuff and couldn't remember where he got it. I have used high-dollar hardfacing rods that had carbide in them. They made the shoe last but not much for traction except in the hardest of slick-rock.

I have worn the nail heads off of many, many sets of shoes. The shoes start "clanking" as they slip back and forth. Decomposed granite is like running the shoe over a 30 grit belt grinder. I use 7 nails.

While I love the access and the whole scene of horseback hunts, the last two that I have been on gave me such bad tendonitis in the patellar tendons of my knees, that I could hardly walk during the hunt and for a week or two later. Must be my combination of short legs and very little horseback riding! Made was was otherwise a couple of wonderful hunts almost miserable! I think I need a little donkey like Yosemite Sam!

I suggest you do some riding at home with someone who knows what they are doing to see what the problem is. It could just be stirrup adjustment. Or it could be riding enough to strengthen the proper muscles. Or improper weight distribution. Or perhaps a handful of ibuprofen before you mount up could help. Or all of the above.

Best of luck.

The first time it happened was on a moose hunt in northern Alberta. It didn't start right away, but by about the third or fourth day, I was miserable.

The most recent time was on a elk hunt in MT. I asked for a small, skinny horse, which seemed to help, but it was again miserable by 4-5 days into the hunt.

I am a short guy, 5' 8" with 28 inch inseam, and it seem like that combination just does something with my knees. I don't have any joint problems otherwise. It almost seems like it is the inversion of the toes that seems to set it off.

I would like to take some other "backcountry" hunts, but am a little hesitant to, given my experiences so far.

That's not so short. IIRC the Pony Express riders were 5' 6" or under. Something is causing the problem. Figure it out and you'll be good to go barring some freak knee situation.

You're stirrups may have been too short, or un-turned. Meaning that they kept wanting to turn inwards and hang flat against the horse. Either situation can be stressful on knees.

The stirrups were turned inward, which is what I figured caused the problem - knees out around the horse, then the feet back inward with the toes pointed in.

Didn't know that the stirrups could be turned out?

Thanks for all the great info. It amazes me how each horse has it's own personality.

If whoever owns the tack has their act together, when the saddle was new, but it can be done at anytime, the stirrup leathers are oiled, then twisted and a broomstick stuck through the stirrups under the saddle, so the leather gets some "memory." Even better is if the saddle is on a saddle stand and downward pressure can be added. Of course there are some saddlemakers who wrap the leathers just above the stirrups so that they hang right from the get go.

If in the future you find yourself in the same situation, providing your horse is calm enough and the terrain permits it, kick your feet out of the stirrups as much as possible.