Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Anyone use a 350 Remington Mag for North American DG?

Ruger 350RM For Sale

MtnHtr

Thank You Guys!
The one thing I have realized from all of this discussion is that there really are a number of fine light weight yet powerful rifles out there that will git her done. So far I have shot 2 35 Whelens, a 338/06, a 375 Ruger, a 375 Winchester (how did that sneak in there?), and a very nice custom built 338 Win Mag. I still can't find a 9.3 X 62 to shoot around here but I think I have gotten the point of what you fellas are saying. Namely that all of the above are wonderful rifles / calibers that will git her done and to say one is better than another is only subjective based on one person's experience. So here is how I have narrowed things down. The 35 Whelens are great rifles for DG hunting as are the rest and factory ammo would be available if necessary. 338/06 is a handloading proposition and an excellent combination but requires a custom rifle which seems a little more exotic than I want to go at this time. The 9.3 X 62 suffers from a lack of ammo availability down here in rural Virginia and I kinda doubt I would get very much practice with it which would lead to problems. The 375 Ruger is plenty powerful and available both ammunition wise and rifle wise. It is tied for second place in my thinking with the 35 Whelen and both are great calibers. However, I feel that slightly longer barrels than I envisioned are needed to get a comfortable margin of power for DG hunting but entirely doable. Now to the 350 Rem Mag. It will git her done in the short barreled configuration I envision but suffers from rifles with short box magazines that prevent several of the better 35 caliber DG bullets from being used. Darn! Life is all about trade offs isn't it? I guess for now I'm going with the 673 in 350 Rem Mag because I can get it here but I almost feel sure that I am going to have to do a lot of experimentation with the ammo to get what I want as it looks to me that the only really good DG bullets for this rig are 250 grainers which is going to create problems with the short box magazine. Certainly not the drop in, ready to play rig I envisioned but still doable. I'll just need to sort this one out a bit more than I thought and I still have the 35 Whelen / 375 Ruger as backups if things don't work out. I'll just have to buy another rifle (grin!!!!). Finally though, for me at least, it seems to have all come down to I just plain like all of the calibers I tested a lot but I have to pick one to start with for now, so this will be it but I am also much better informed about future options I might have if I decide the 350 Rem Mag is not for me later on down the line. I really want to thank everyone for their input as each of you has raised several good points for me to consider both now and in the future. You guys are an invaluable resource and a great bunch of guys that I consider to be my best friends. Thank you all so very much for all of your help and experience. You certainly covered all of the principal issues with this question very thoroughly and factually and I am grateful to each of you. Many Thanks!

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas...How he got in my pajamas I do not know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

Flower Child

I'm a Rem Model 7 junky........always wanted one in stainless 350 mag......but Rem didn't make one......I bought a stainless 7 in SAUM as a donor......a simple rebarrel would get me what I wanted........then, Ruger started closing out their stainless 77s in 350 mag........I could buy one ($450) for less than the cost of a rebarrel of the 7.......I'm not a Ruger rifle fan but I decided I'd try it...........figured I could always sell it if I didn't like it.

The 77 is slightly longer and heavier than the stainless 7.......but the 77 has a longer magazine box and a 22" barrel...........mine shoots EXTREMELY well.....I won't be selling it anytime soon.

Flower_Child,

I wouldn't lose sleep over the short boxes of the 350 RMs; that horse has been dead a long time and is still being beat. Say seating a 250-gr pill to OAL to fit your magazine eats up 10 grains of powder space compared to one seated to the base of the neck. I have no idea about that number; it's arbitrarily chosen to illustrate a point. The oft stated rule relating case volume to velocity is that for a 1% vel increase you need to increase volume (or in a 100% density loading, powder in grains to make it easy) 4x which means with your 10 grain loss you've dropped down in velocity 2.5% which in the 350 RM with a 250-gr bullet is in the neighborhood of 50-70 fps--essentially meaningless.

The same weeping and gnashing of teeth has been done over the .284 Win over the years. In mine, the very long 140-gr. TTSX seats a full .3" below the base of the neck to fit in a 2.95" box and yet in my rifle with R15 chugs along over 2900 fps, about what you can expect from the 284's case volume under any circumstances barring a 30" barrel. And, I doubt very much if we're talking about a 10 grain loss in case volume so the loss of velocity could be even less.

There are other factors such as barrel length or whether it's a "fast" or "slow" barrel which may affect velocity in your rifle as much or more than the small case volume loss due to bullet seating below the neck base.

Remingtons Model 7 CDL in 350 would be cool.

As a couple of people have already stated the .30-06 would work fine with 200-grain Partitions, or 220's for that matter. I know this is true--though not because I have done it myself, but because my friend Phil Shoemaker has done it it many times with 200 Partitions. (Phil--".458 Win."--already posted on this thread.

That said, the .350 is a good one. There have always been those who complained about the loss of powder space, and even some who built long-action rifles on the .350--or the 6.5 Rem. Magnum or the .284 or whatever cartridge they felt allowed the bullet too far down into the powder space. Apparently these people have never actually measured how far many heavier bullets protrude below the neck in LONG cartridge such as the .300 Weatherby, or a bunch of others.

That said, there isn't a heck of a lot of weight difference between a long and short action of the same make. Usually it's 3-4 ounces. So the other stuff like stock, barrel contour, etc. make a heck of a lot more difference than action length. A longer cartridge (whether .35 Whelen, .338 Winchester or .375 H&H) will normally feed noticeably slicker than a short/fat one, even if the short/fat one feeds reliably. And feeding slick is a good idea in a dangerous game rifle.

I have a .350 myself, a controlled-round feed Ruger 77 Mark II, that feeds reliably since I took an entire afternoon to really work it over. A Remington action would have probably fed slicker and would be somewhat lighter, but why dink around with a short round when you can do a light rifle in a longer round and not only have slicker feeding but 2 more rounds in the magazine?

My vote would be for a .35 Whelen in a reasonably light rifle, probably a 700 with a synthetic stock--that is, if you really want something bigger than a .30-06. The Whelen has the most boom for the recoil in the category of factory cartridges that are bigger than the '06, and has the advantage of 2 more rounds in the magazine over the .350.

I don't mean to offend Rem fans, esp. those who have had 100% reliability, but emotions aside, my 338/06 was on a NEW 700 SS action and the bolt handle broke off around 200-300 firings, not hotloaded, not beating the handle with anything.

Point is, love the 338/06, as I do the 350/358 and 9.3s, nothing against the Whelen either. BUT, if I were in DG country, I REFUSE to use a Rem actioned rifle. Sako, M70, Mauser, Montana Rifleman, Ruger, CZ, etc. all make dependable actions w/o the potential for a handle breakage....albeit however small, you simply will not find it acceptable should it occur, esp. if facing a DG animal. I want 100% confidence, but more importantly 100% construction i.e. one pc. bolt body/handle.

A Ruger 77 in 350RM with 225 Partitions or TSX or good 250s is plenty medicine, and in a totally reliable package. Lop off 2-3" if you want a faster handling rifle, and add a Pachmayr Decelerator pad or Limbsaver and you'd have a solid package.

MH, that is a nice no frills solid package, always loved and used DD low B&R on M70s.

Good points--but then I would still be tempted to use a 77 in .35 Whelen, just because of the extra magazine capacity and slicker feeding.

The other side of it is that some of us have used 700's for tens of thousands of rounds without a bolt handle breaking off.

If you want to be absolutely, completely sure then a 98 Mauser is the way to go. And that strongly suggests the .35 Whelen.

JB, good point on the Whelen, smoother in LA form w/o the belt no doubt, never owned one, but recognize it's worth. I chose the 338/06 for it's extra round and more tolerable recoil over the Winnie, and a 225 at 2670 was not bad, 200 bts at 2900 seemed to flatten whitetails also, and trajectory was better than many non users might guess. It and the Whelen are very close it seems, yet more factory options on the 35 of course.

Odds are I'd never have another Rem handle breakage, but when you get burned.....well, I really take it serious when it comes to my equipment. It happened after my return from a CO elk hunt, and it was the first shot at the range. HAD that happened on the hunt....the rifle would be wrapped around a tree somewhere on a mountain......

I never fault anyone for using whatever has worked for them. As to the 98s, It always gets my attention when owners post pics of nicely put together Mausers (esp. w/fancy wood).....seem to have a nice character about them and I well remember a friend's 280 that shot bug hole groups, so the potential accuracy for a hunting rifle is there. If I hit the lottery, I'd like to put together a few all out Mausers, but since I am awaiting my Stimulus money just to afford to play......something like an FN action without the nice custom features ie. high grade wood, would still make a nice sporter assuming good bbl, trigger, sights, and stock/bedding.

And when you get down to it, the 77 is a great value IMHO to approximate a 98 for a rugged hunting big game rifle.

Both of my remingtons have been tested, stuck cases, had to beat them open with a small piece of 2X4. I did learn a lesson though. Full length resize cases that have been fired in a different rifle! Nothing broke, oh tested my brothers one day too, bullet set out too far. I know it does happen just not as much as you would think. Other rifles break too I bet.

Oh talk about slick feeding, mine is getting broke in I guess, my 35 whelen feeds so slick now its hard to tell if you had one in the magazine.

I would love to have a Mod 7 or Mod 600/660 in .350 Rem Mag. I also have the hots for the Full Stock CZ 550 carbine in 9.3x62. My latest purchase was a 700 Rem SPS-DG in .375 H&H, NIB for $515. They are butt ugly and the best big bang for the buck, if they are still available at a price like that. Good luck.

These are my two...a stock 600 with Leupold 1.5-5 and a customized 77MKII with the barrel cut to 18.25".



The M600 replaced a M700 Classic/.350 that had replaced a Ruger #1/.375 H&H. The #1 was a great shooter but I got tired of the recoil and it was not exactly a lightweight to carry all day. The 700 Classic was extremely accurate also and much less recoil that a .375/270 grain/2670 fps load. The 225 Nosler Petition would run 2660 fps from a 22" barrel and could easily reach 2750 but recoil started to detract from the shootability at that point...so I backed down to 60 grains of Winchester 748 and lived happily ever after.

Once I found the M600 that many a panzie gun writer had scared me off from buying for 35+ years the handing difference was just perfect so the 700 Classic went to another home. It gives up 100 FPS but it slams game to the ground so who cares...

I also wanted a stainless .350 and when I saw this 77MKII on GunBroker I bid on it and was the only bidder. Some kid in Alaska apparently had it modified with New England Custom Gun sights and the barrel chopped down to 18.25". I use it on rainy days and on the 4Wheeler in Maine to keep the M600 from getting banged up too badly. It also is the designated 250 grain shooter and does it very well.

I have only taken deer with the .350s but my friend has taken 3-4 black bear with his M673. All were one shot drop in place. All were using the 220 grain Speer FP. This was his last sow..I believe it was 220#.



This is the only recovered bullet. Passed through the shoulder, lungs and was found under the skin in the chest. It was a 268# boar I believe.



These rifles weigh 8 pounds 3 ounces and 8 pounds 13 ounces respectively. If you want a REAL lightweight .350 then the way to go is the Model 7KS from the Remington Custom Shop. I just passed one up NIB on GunBroker with a Leupold Scope for $1350.00. I decided that for that money I'll build a stainless one...

Bob

The suspense is killing me. What did you decide on?
whelennut

Whelennut,
I'm still playing around with this but it looks like for me the 350 Rem Mag in the 673 Guide gun. After careful consideration it all came down to the 673 Guide gun in 350 Rem Mag was ergonomically perfect for me, both the size of the rifle and the cartridges. For some reason, the shorter length cartridge was physically easier for me to load and fire than the longer length cases. I guess I am just clumsy and fumble fingered but try as I would I could not seem to speed load the 9.3 X 62 or the 35 Whelen without dropping cartridges on the ground. The 350 Rem Mag simply fits my size hand and little chubby fingers better when loading the magazine. It is unlikely that the rifle would be empty but I still feel better being able to load it precisely in the dark without dropping any rounds or having them pop out of the magazine because I could not get them correctly positioned easily. Your experience I would guarantee is different but then you and most people ain't a short / small as me neither so I have to do what makes sense for me. Ballistically the 9.3 X 62 and the 35 Whelen are top notch choices for most folks. It's just for me this seems to fit my criteria slightly better but the other two are great choices for the same purpose. By the way, thank you guys for all the help. You sure opened my eyes and gave me plenty of information to formulate my choices from.

Flower Child

I once shot an elephant in my pajamas.... How he got in my pajamas I do not know?!!! -Groucho Marx-

A barnes 230 grain TSX at 2800 out of the 375 Ruger seems more interesting too me unless I am mistaken its in about the same bullet weight and velocity range as the 350 Rem mag. Then rifles are about the same weight for store bought ones. On the other hand where the 350 Rem Mag is at near its top end the Ruger is just getting started. I own a 300WSM, and a .270 winchester both feed well but the sure .270 feeds a lot smoother.

Here is my mod 7 .350. I love this rifle/cartridge.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Not_really_a_custom_but_cus#Post3217834

I don't see any faults with the performance of the 350RM or the rifles you are considering. In fact the Rem CDL with a 20" and open sights looks mighty tempting. My only concern is feeding it. I don't see any dies, brass or ammo in the obvious places. I'm sure they are out there it just seem a little tough to find after I looked.

Brass, dies and ammo are around...you just have to order it off the web from Midway, Natchez, etc.

Reed's Ammo also has a lot of custom loads and Nosler brought out the .350 RM with their 225 Petition in their Custom Ammo line.

M7 CDL is a great handling gun...if I didn't already have a M600 I would look at one...

Bob

FC. I've had both the 673 and the Ruger M77. M77 Hands down. Only thing I killed with it was a moose and it was a one shot deal. Chamber is longer in the m77 for heavier bullets. 673 and even the box magazine just dont' work well with the heavier rounds. truth of the matter as Dobrinski said the standard old 30-06 with a 200 grain nosler will handle 99% of of everying on the earth. And it will have a better balistic coefficient.

I'll add, that to my way of thinking - magazine capacity is very important in a DGR - unless you always hunt with guides.

Most British Columbian grizzly hunters hunt without a guide - many of us hunt alone. Even if you aren't "hunting" them - in B.C., in many places - bears will find you, after a series of shots.

Once you've had numerous bears circle your moose - while you attempt to bone it out - you won't ever poo-poo magazine capacity - or detachable clips (with an extra one in the pocket) any more.

Guides are a luxury most hunters can't afford.

Cartridge capacity, on the other hand, for most hunters - is something they can afford.