Home Forums Lever Action Central Marlin 336 Lever Actions 336, 35 rem to 356 win conversion?

I read not long ago about a guy who quite regularly converts 35rem marlin 336's to 356 winchester. What is entailed in this job? Is it a simple rechamber or is it more complicated?

Does anyone know of the guy I'm talking about?

Regan Nonneman in Maryville, MO, does that conversion on a regular basis. It requires more than a rechamber, but the price is around $100, so it is a great deal IMO. I had a 336 CS done last year, along with a trigger job, and the removal of the cross-bolt safety. It will also work with reloads using rimless 358 brass. If I find a 336SC in 35 Remington for a good price, I'll probably buy it and have Nonneman convert it and sell my full magazine 336CS.

Jeff

That's how this hole thing strated. I found a 336 35 rem for 300 canadian. I think I can talk him down to 250 can, so for 100$ I can get a 356 win, wich is what I've been looking for for 2 years.

Can this person listed modify the 35 Rem to .358 Win? They make factory loads for .358. I've only remotely heard of .356. I'm not a hand loader so I don't want to get some odd ball caliber I can't just go buy boxes of ammo for.

I've been looking for a .358 win and the only gun I know of in current manufacture is the Browning BLR. And for some reason I just don't like the straight grip and the looks. The Marlin looks so much better, to me anyhow. And 35 Rem just doesn't have the energy on the ballistic charts I seen to even come close to the knock down power of the .358. The only thing even close is the .444 Marlin. But I still am drawn to the .358 like a moth to a flame. But I just can't get passed the BLR.

The 356win is just a semi rimmed 358 winchester case. It's still loaded by winchester with a 200gr silvertip bullet. It's actually easier to find 356win then 358 win in most areas.

But you can make .358's from .308 brass!! Marlin says this is not a safe conversion.

Why don't you call Nonneman and ask him if he would convert a 35 Rem to 358, if you think that brass for reloading is an issue?????

BTW, what did you expect Marlin to say??? If they said anything but "don't do it, its unsafe", they would be openning themselves up to litigation if a conversion failed. If you rechamber, rebarrel, or reload for any rifle, you void any legitimate claim that you might have against the manufacturer.

I don't think that the availability of brass is a significant issue in the short term. If you do, I would suggest that you buy 100 cases to use and 100 cases to set aside for the long term. Problem solved.

Jeff

I don't and would never make 358 cases out of 308 brass. There's no need. Brass is available, cheap enough and I'd rather have correctly labeled headstamps due to having both calibers in my arsenal.

Besides, neck thickness is a concern when necking up for proper neck tension.

Take care, my impression is that .358 is loaded hotter than .356 and it may be pushing it to use factory ammo or top velocity .358 loads in the Marlin.

Why convert your 35 to a 356? The 35 Remington cartridge is factory loaded to about 28,000 lbs of pressure. Reloading manual recipes are for 28,000 to 30,000 lbs of pressure. A 336 Marlin can withstand 30-30 pressures (42,000 lbs) or 375 pressure (45,000 lbs). A rechambered 35 rifle has to withstand 356 pressures. Speer's reloading manual shows 356 pressure at 52,000 cup (about 50,000 lbs). There is a growing number of reloaders that are reloading over the book maximums. We call the over-loads 35+ shells. My 35 shoots a factory 200 grain shell at 1975 ft/sec. It shots my 35+ shells at 2225 ft/sec (200 grain bullet). What we need is a reloading manual to show safe loads up to 40,000 lbs of pressure. The 45-70 cartridge had the same problem. Now many reloading manuals divid 45-70 into three sections, trap door (the weakest action), Ruger #1's (the strongest action), and everything else (the in-between rifles, such as Marlin and Winchester). Using 35+ reloads, there is just not that much difference between a 35 and a 356. I know because I have owned both 35 and 356.

The heat treating is different on 307/356 receivers than the 30-30/35 Rem receivers. $100 sounds cheap for re-heat treating ,and thus refinishing a receiver. My guess is that the MO 'smith is modifying the bolt and chamber reaming the barrel. Shoot 358 ammo in a 356 chamber only if you want to have the bolt permanently imbedded in your cheek bone.

All he's doing is running a reamer in the barrel, perhaps modifying the extractor, & calling it done. Marlin says it's unsafe to do this. My impression of this conversion is that the people who have this done will be really unhappy down the road. Yes, the basic reciever is dimensionally the same. No the heat-treating of the reciever, and the internal locking bolts, etc. are not the same. Yes, the .444 is made on the same basic reciever, but the .444 has a totally different expansion ratio than the .356 does, and this is a major difference. Feel free to flame away, I'm tough, I won't feel it.

Bob

I would respectfully suggest that Nonneman knows more about Marlin 336s than you or I will ever know. He told me that he Rockwell tests every action that he rechambers and that he has never, no never, found a soft Marlin action.

Where did you get the information that the heat treatment of the 336ER actions was different from any other 336 action? My contact at Marlin told me that that 336ER actions were no different than any other 336. Of course Marlin would say the conversion is unsafe, their liability attorneys wouldn't allow them to say anything else. Besides, anyone with half a brain knows that you void any warranty, written or implied, when you customize any commercial firearm.

I have had a couple of original 336ERs and currently have a couple of custom 336s in 356 that feed and fire without a hitch. As I recall, Nonneman does some milling to the lever, in addition to running a reamer to cut a new chamber. If you are familiar with the 336 extractor, you'll know that it is just a spring steel clip and is a universal fit for both rimmed and rimless cartridges, so no modification is necessary.

I think that I paid $185 for the 336CS that I had Nonneman rechamber from 35 to 356 and I can't see any reason to be unhappy, now or down the road. It's not like I'm ruinning the collector's value or anything. Heck, if I could find a nice 336A, 336SC, or 336SD in 35, I'd have Nonneman do another conversion for me.

Testimony from a statisfied customer!

Jeff

My original information about special heat-treating is courtesy of Marlins original sales literature. The statement of the conversion not being recommended by Marlin came from Marlins website when this whole discussion first started, several years ago. I am not casting aspersions on Nonnemans intergrity, or the quality of his work, I DO believe Marlin understands their action better than anyone, and that if they do not recommend the conversion, that's good enough for me. I bought a Winchester BigBore so I could have a .356.

Bob

I have a 356 conversion from Regan Nonneman and it is an excellent rifle. You are absolutely right that the receiver of the ER is no different than the standard 336. In fact, you can go to Gun Parts Corp. and look up the parts for each rifle and find that they are the exact same receiver.

How does your conversion 356 shoot in comparsion to your originals, in terms of accuracy and functioning?

I don't have any of the original 336ERs anymore, as the market got so high I couldn't resist selling them.

All of them shoot fine. The best shooter is a 336 stainless with a 24" Douglas barrel that was made by a friend of mine. It is a great shooting rifle that I plan to take moose hunting this coming fall. Nonneman does good work and his prices are impossible to beat. I have less than $300 into the 336CS that he converted for me and it has probably had 200 +/- rounds through it without a hitch. You can't buy a factory produced 356 or 358 for less than $300 anywhere that I know of, so for a guy wanting a 356 to shoot, Nonneman is the way to go.

I have always thought that the Winchester 307 and 356 rifles were finished better than the Marlins, but I much prefer a pistol grip stock, so Marlin was my only choice. Also, Nonneman told me that he won't convert any Winchester 94 actions to 307 or 356, since the heat treatment and Rockwell hardness varies much more than the Marlin 336 actions.

Jeff

Yes, Regan told me that not only does the Rockwell hardness of the Winchesters vary much more, but also that they have nowhere near the hardness of the Marlins and are "very soft," so he won't do a conversion on them.

Here is another thought.

Below is the ballistics between a 356 win and a 444 Marlin in a 20 inch Marlin.

Unless there is some motivation beyond actual hunting results. You can clearly see that a 444 Marlin is essentially a twin of the 356. And there are many 444 marlins out there and can be bought brand new from Marlin with the faster rifle twist to stabilize the heavier bullet weights.

This I copied from the beartooth forum from an alias named Ranchdog.

I've been working with the 444 Marlin steadily for the last couple of years and have JUST started with my 356 Win Marlin 336ER. Basically, it seems that the 356 Win generates about 2360 FPS, the same velocity that my 444 Marlin achieves with a 265-grain bullet. Here is how my ballistic tables compare with the two cartridges. This is just an inital look as I have just started shooting the 356 this week. I use a 3" vital zone for my zero range calculations. With these cartridges I can't see using anything larger as they simply are going to run out of steam beyond 250 yards for big game hunting.
Code:

356 Win - 200 Grain Hornady
179 Yard Zero
YDS VEL FPE DROP
25 2252 2253 0.3
50 2147 2047 1.7
75 2044 1856 2.5
100 1945 1679 2.9
125 1848 1517 2.7
150 1755 1368 1.9
175 1665 1232 0.3
200 1579 1107 -2
225 1497 996 -5.2
250 1420 896 -9.4

Code:

444 Marlin 265-Grain Lee TLC
184 Yard Zero
YDS VEL FPE DROP
25 2266 3022 0.3
50 2174 2781 1.6
75 2084 2555 2.5
100 1996 2344 2.9
125 1910 2147 2.8
150 1827 1964 2.1
175 1746 1795 0.7
200 1668 1638 -1.4
225 1593 1493 -4.3
250 1521 1361 -8.1

to whom it may concern; the 358 is the 308 case expanded to 35 cal, read your history of the 358,,,

Guys

I dont reply here much but i feel i have to. 1) The 307 and 356 winchester cartridges were only chambered in the Winchester 94 XTR Big Bore, which is not only heat treated but the receiver walls are thicker, so its action was built for the additional pressures of these rounds. 2) The .358 case has a little more internal capacity and is thus rated at 52,000 CUP and the .356 is around 48,000 which would definately stress a 336 over time, its not going to blow up immediately but if enough "hot" .358 loads were put through it something bad could happen.

Your best bet is to buy a new BLR in .358 win, Browning now has two models the straight gripped 81' lightweight and another model with a pistol grip and scnabel fore arm which is also a light weight. If you do your research properly one can readily see that the BLR design has it all. 6-1/2 lbs 20" barrel, rotationg bolt that locks up in the front,rack and pinion lever which only takes 60 degrees to actuate. A box magazine which can use spitzer bullets, clean lines, no safety except the folding hammer which is ingenious.A one in 12" twist rate to stabilize any 358 bullet, an excellent recoil pad that makes it feel like my 06. True side ejection, and tapped for a scope, and its trigger is not that bad, but should be tuned by a gunsmith.

While an 81" light-weight may not be the prettiest it sure has no real negatives, unless it doesnt shoot well(but mine does) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> so i guess you could say that im prejudiced, happy hunting guys.