Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only low recoil,big boomer?

Classic caliber, 9.9 lbs, killed thousands of elephant and buffalo ...

http://www.realguns.com/archives/125.htm

backup:

http://www.magnumresearch.com/bfr_fact.asp

nuff said, ....

Chuck

Dittos,

except PRETTY PLEASE,....with sugar on top?

GTC

Consider a Ruger #1 in .458 loaded down to 45-70 levels with a 300 grain bullet. The gun and scope weigh in at a little over 10 lbs if I recall correctly. Mine shoots like a target rifle with about 50 grains of either IMR or H4198 and a magnum primer. Recoil is quite modest.

Brinky,
I have no dog in the 45-70 fight, but the fact that a 45-70 has killed buffalo is not a legitamate arguement. I have shot buffalo with the 7x57, 308, 8x57 with milsurp ammo, and I know of a kid that shot a cape buffalo in the ear with a 22 Hornet, but they are not good Cape buffalo cartridges and I was putting myself at risk using them, nor is the 45-70 any where near a buffalo cartridge IMO....

Good Cape buff rounds begin with the 375 H&H an go up from there..The last thing on this earth I want to have in my hands if a Cape Buff or Lion is coming at me is a .45-70..

I know the circumstances of many of those promoted 45-70 kills. Those bulls made a lot of tracks, even with multiple hits..If they had charged the story would have changed dramatically and if your ever charged by a Cape Buffalo you will change your mind as to a Cape Buffalo gun is. He is an awesome advasary.

I like the 45-70, the 45-90 even better, but they are deer calibers IMO..I have films of several elk kills and even the elk made many tracks, and the promoter telling the hunter not to shoot again as we need one shot kills..I told him to shoot the damn elk again or that I was going too do it. That kind of promotional stuff turns me off. I was not invited back btw! I have that film also.

If anyone wants to hunt with any caliber that is their business but more guess and by gosh and less field experience surrounds the 45-70 than any caliber I know of..It is surrounded and protected by nostalgia imo.

I suppose I need to grab my horse and make a get away about now as this old smoke pole makes their owners very defensive!

Just for reference Ray, and I am by no means questioning your experience, were these modern +P 45-70 or old reduced loads to which you are referring?

In the old government loads, anything between 350 grains and 405 grains has practically the same energy as a .243 over about the same distance.

Not intending to fuel the big bullet debate, because I have seen amazing things done with cast bullets. But loading down the 45-70 to Low recoil levels like the old government loads or milder will only make a bigger hole and provide no real advantage over a milder mid-bore.

.243 Win. (80 PSP) V/E (Muzzle) 3350/1993 (100 yds) 2955/1551 (200 yds) 2593/1194 (300 yds)2259/906

.45-70 Gov. (405 FP) V/E (Muzzle) 1330/1590 (100 yds) 1168/1227 (200 yds)1055/1001 (300 yds) 977/858

Data stolen from Chuck Hawks ballistics table FWIW.

A ruger #1 Tropical in the new 416ruger may be a good choice .It will drive 400gr at 2400 and give a resonable range of lighter projectiles to choose if you need a light load for practice and weight should be around 9.5lbs

Last time I checked, the only person talking about Cape Buffalo here, is Ray.

And, the .45-70 and .45-90 are only deer rounds.

UFB, and really rather funny, if he wasn't serious.

I wonder what Bill Bagwell will say on this one, if he chimes in. Given his experience with those "deer rounds", you know, he just might disagree.

A .458 diameter/350 grain North Fork out of a Marlin Lever action at 2250+ fps is a Deer round.I have the link to the data..Put it in a '92 or '86 at Ruger #1 pressures(50,000) and maybe it is a Mule Deer cartridge.

I can say the 540 grain has less felt recoil at 1550 fps in a 7# Guide Gun than the 420 grain at 1850 fps and I might add,these are below 35,000 in pressure,far from the max average operating pressure(SAAMI 450 Marlin) of 43,500 PSI.

I would love to see the Deer or Elk that can stop a 420 or 540 grain properly cast bullet.The rest is shot placement as with any caliber.

Jayco

I have to wonder whose 45-70 and 45-90 Ray Atkinson was shooting and what they were loaded with. He is certainly not talking about my rifles and loads.

I plan on shooting an American bison on the 4th of December--it will be my fifth one--and I have yet to recover a bullet shooting lead paper patched bullets and black powder from an animal. None of the bison went as far as 25 yards from being hit, and none required more than two shots.

I have taken thirteen animals on two trips to Africa, including two kudu, both a black and a blue wildebeast, a gemsbok, and a zebra, and have yet to recover a bullet or lose an animal. Make no mistake, a properly loaded 45-70 is a lot more than a deer cartridge.