Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Penetration on Deer: Northern Whitetails

There seems to be a lot of discussion in the magazines about the use of premium bullets, bonded bullets, etc. and use for whitetail deer. In my part of the world some of the large bucks can reach 275 lbs + with a good average buck between 160-225 lbs with shots ranging from point-blank to 300 yards or more.

Is a 150 grain bullet like a power point, core lokt, hi shok, etc. all that I really need in a calibre like .308 WIN or should I really be concerned about bullet toughness? I don't ever plan on taking a texas heart shot so are the 150's OK ? What about shoulder hits ?

I am a budding rifleman who is getting confused...

They are all you will ever need. A bizzillion deer have been killed with them and will continue to be killed with them. That being said I use Barnes X and TSX bullets in my longguns (haven't used the TSX yet but plan to load hem in my .243WSSM next week). Have always used the X in my .243Win and .257Roberts back when I was shooting longguns.

Standard bullets are all you ever need for any whitetail deer. Slow openers, or petal shedders like partitions, always exit, but do far less damage on deer size animals than a standard soft point.

They will sure do the job, but I prefer the 165's in the .308, more of an all around bullet, and you will likley have better luck on the bigger deer.

I agree with what Steve NO said above, as long as you're using an average size caliber such as a 308, 30-06, 270, etc, I don't think a premium bullet is needed for whitetail. Here in KY the deer aren't quite as big as they are up north, but several people including myself have taken deer that went well over 200lb with "standard" bullets. IMO, the only time you need "premium" bullets for whitetail is when you're using a small caliber (223, etc) or when using a fast magnum (30-378, etc).

If you plan to take longer range shots, I would go with a 165gr or maybe a 180gr bullet because they carry more energy at longer ranges. The 150gr bullets will work fine for most shots though.

You shouldn't have any problems with shoulders using a standard bullet, just as long as you're using a common round such as the 308 which isn't terribly small or fast you should be fine.

I wouldn't recommend a Texas heart shot with any bullet, although there are plenty of "premium" bullets that are capable of it.

Of course a lot of people like "premium" bullets because they don't have to worry about penetration. That's fine if you prefer to never have to worry about penetration no matter what the shot angle. However, in the standard calibers, I think the "premium" bullets give up a bit of terminal performance to achieve that excellent penetration.

We live in Minnesota where big deer can go over 200 lbs.
My wife shoots a 308 and I handload 125 gr Sierra bullets at 2900 fps. She has never had a problem with killing deer. We went to Alaska and hunted caribou once, she shot a caribou that had to go 400 lbs. She used a 150 gr Federal load and had no problem. Now we switched back to the 125 gr load and will stay with it. My opinion is that bullet placement is the key. If you use good sense and take the gun magazines with a grain of salt, I think you could hunt almost anything with your 308 and standard 150 gr bullets. If you go moose or bear hunting you might want to think about 180 gr standard bullets. Just my opinion after thirty years of deer hunting.
Great White North

Hell, There have been half a bizzillion(I love that word) elk killed with With standard bullets. There is no need for premium or super premium on whitetail using standard cartridges. capt david <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

"I don't ever plan on taking a texas heart shot so are the 150's OK ?"

[color:"red"]Yes. [/color]


"What about shoulder hits ?"

[color:"red"]Not a problem. [/color]

I've killed 250 lb deer and I've seen 300 lb deer killed in the Greater Ohio Valley within 100 miles of Cincinnati. None required a premium bullet. The are awesome to look at, but that size difference is deceiving.

You have to remember that the key dimension in a deer in this discussion is the width of the chest. That dimension changes very little as the weight changes. The girth of a 157 pounder and a 340 pounder differs by only 10 inches. That's using the chart over at whitetail.com. Assume that's a circle and use trig to figure out the change in diameter. That comes out to less than 4 inches. What's more, you only have to go 3/4 of that distance to take out both lungs and the heart. In the end, you're talking about a difference of less than 3 inches of deer, assuming a broadside heart/lung shot.

Start talking to me about a difference when you see a moose.

The flesh is not any tougher. The organs aren't either. You might get a bit more resistance going through a thicker rib, but not enough to worry.

In the end, deer are not that hard to kill. My contention has been and will be that time spent on worrying about terminal ballistics inside whitetails would be better spent scouting. 150 grain Walmart Winnies or Remmies are just fine. If you're having qualms, try 165 grainers instead.

I agree with most everyone else; "regular" is fine in a .308 (or similar)...(although I do load Nosler partitions in my youngest son's .243) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />(for a little insurance if you will)...(85 grains @ 3000+ "hedges the bet" so to speak)

Most of the "premium talk" is for magnums or "hot rodded" standard calibers for example a 30/06 "loaded very hot" in that situation often the velocity CAN exceed(especially at closer ranges) the speed of a "standard bullet's" ability to hold together.(especially when bone(shoulder) may be encountered).Regular "cup and core" bullets will work very well at the .308's velocity range and IMHO are all one needs for deer and similar sized game...

That being said if YOU feel the need use a premium, use what YOU'RE comfy with; confidence in one's load is the #1 thing ; that breeds the ability to make a quick,clean, humane kill as much as about anything else...IMHO

I also live in Wisconsin and won't use a BT or super expansive bullet on deer here. The deer deserve a quick clean death and using a better bullet helps to ensure a cleaner kill. I killed a lot of deer with Sierra Gamekings and Core Lokts. Partitions and TSX's are good bullets, but not necessary for whitetails. .308 is as good as anything. It would be a tough argument to say it is not adequate for WI deer.

I use 150 gr NBT's out my 7rem mag for our large saskatchewan bucks and never have had a problem toppling them. However I must say it wouldn't be a bullet I would aim for the flush shoulder shot and expect the same results. Personally if your a pin shooter then I think you need to look at construction a bit more closely than the most favorite spot H/L region. I am not saying a standard 150 wouldn't do it but I would personally want a bit more insurance in way of a bonded or nosler partition if this was my preference aim point. It boils down to preference and coinfidence on bullet choice. Personally I use premium ammo for my biggame hunting, it is just a choice and I have no worries that if I do my part so will the bullet. To me it is a small amount compared to what I shell out each year to hunt.

To me "I" feel that people ( like me ) who reload just plain like to fool with things just to see what happens with premiums. I know I do and that is part of the fun.





So you shouldn't worry about this and just hit the right spot and there will be tenderloins in the oven that night.



Good luck



Brian

I will offer an opposing view since no one else has.

You NEED premium bullets. Anything less will bounce right off these big, tough, weather-beaten northern maneaters. A friend of mine in Maine knows a guy whose brother-in-law's plumber shot a deer through the lungs with a plain ol' bullet and the deer was so enraged it ran 1263 yards, tore the tracks off a feller-buncher, then came back to steal the guy's wallet and go out for a nice Italian dinner.

John

John,



Yeah those 225 grain Hornady's you have for your 375 H&H are marginal for deer and should only be used on Varmints.



Actually, I'm a big fan of premium bullets (especially Barnes Bullets) They might not be absolutely necessary for deer but they will certainly kill quickly and it's a small price to pay for maximizing performance.



I also am a 1 load for 1 gun type of guy and when loading X bullets I can easily use the same loads for both deer and larger game if I choose.



A 140 7mm TSX is great for deer or elk where a 140 Ballistic Tip might not be the best choice for elk.



Also, since I'm going to be a Texan in a few months, I have to ask. "What is a Texas heart shot"? I'm assuming it's one straight up the poop chute.

That would be correct---we have tried to have the name changed to "Yankee heart shot" but have had little success <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well, that's not where Yankees' hearts are ...

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

sorry, couldn't resist.

John