Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Smallest Pointing Breed

I've been without a dog for too long. Am looking for a small point breed that hunts relatively close and makes for a good house dog.

What is the smallest breed of pointing dog?

I very much liked my GWP runt that only weighed 35 pounds. Second one was 50+ and bigger than I desire.

Suggestions?

Brittany Spaniels are a smaller pointing breed - had one when I was a kid that was a heck of a good dog. One of the most loyal dogs I've ever seen - I believe the French Brittanys are smaller than their American cousins. Might check into it - I'm more of a flusher/retriever guy so take my info for what it's worth.

+1 on the Brittany...females are of course smaller...mine was about average at 35 pounds...
They make wonderful pet dogs for the other 98% of the year when you arent hunting....

Ingwe

No question. Brits ARE the smallest pointing breed. Why do you want a pointer that hunts close? The entire point of a pointing dog is to cover as much ground as possible and find birds, then hold them until you catch up. Brits are also great house dogs. Ours sleeps in bed with us, but she doesn't really hunt "close" Shes perfectly happy 50-200 yards out when Im on foot. 300-400 yards off horse. She knows the difference.

my BIL has a welsh spaniel,he is about 25 lbs,nice dog,hard worker.

On Brits, check the breeding. Some are bred along field trials lines and they run far and wide. They can tend to be a little hyper. I have a cousin who breeds and loves these and cautioned me to look elsewhere for a companion/foot hunter.

Others are bred to be companions and are wonderful in that role but may not be very effective hunters. (Had one like that, he was such a great buddy I didn't care that he was no hunting star, after all that's just a few weeks of the year.) Others are bred for companionship AND foot hunting, planning on one next.

If you're interested in adopting a Brit, check here. American Brittany Rescue

I don't know but was told by one who does that French Brits can be a hand full. Just a caution, do your research.

BTW, my little rat terrier points, does that count for small? Usually at the scent a small bird leaves. She enjoys running the fields with other dogs if the cover isn't too heavy, but you can see that she's not sure why.

Thanks for all the inputs. I'll look more closely at Brits since they appear to be the odds on favority here. I have never been impressed by the Brits I've hunted over but have to say neither were well trained. Also am considering a small munsterlander.

Jetjockey - I consider 50-200 yards a close working dog. My english pointer seemed to always be 400-1000 yards away and it got to be a bit much covering that much distance in Idaho rough country to reach the point. The Pointer was a magnificent runner and the most stylish pointer but she tolerated me and I want a dog that is part of the family.

Since you�ve had and liked GWPs� some of your local Drahthaar breeders are producing smaller dogs like you describe for day after day hunting on rough ground (chukar dogs). Call around and talk with them about what you are looking for and see if they can help. You�ll be looking at a female for a small one. My Draht is not small at ~70lbs but he is a mo-chine in the field and a lap dog in the home albeit a big lap dog.
http://www.vdd-gna.org/breeders_gna.php

Jake is a GSP, his parents were betwen 40 and 55 pounds and he seems to be settling in the 55 pound range....cuddly bastard and is my shadow 24/7 if i let him be, sits at the bathroom door and whines while i take a shower which my wife thinks is hilarious.....

I am on my second Brit and really like the breed. My first one, Cody, was the dog I will compare all other dogs I ever come across to....and I doubt any will measure up. The one I have now is just a good dog. Doesnt have quite the drive the first one had and doesnt retrieve as well, but still a pleasure to own and hunt over.

Why would you want to have a pointer keep close?? Well, you havent hunted many wild pheasants in the upper midwest obviously. If you are into all the "steady to wing and shot" crap and dont shoot any bird that isnt properly pointed and backed up and asks persmission before it flushes, then I guess you could get a wild ranging dog. But from a pure hunting standpoint, you have to have a dog that stays close or you are going to bust a LOT of birds unneccesarily. Wild birds, particularly late season wild birds, just wont hold for a point and will not tolerate anybody or any dog getting close to them before they head for the hills. Opening day birds and game farm birds will however.

I have an 18 month old Brittany that weighs about 44lbs. He was the largest out of his litter. To say he is a great dog would be an understatement. He is just as at home sitting in my daughter's lap as he is out in the field.

He is also something to watch out in the field. He has been trained to be the best of both worlds. If we are on foot he hunts at about 60 yards, which for me is perfect. Once we pull out horses at a field trial and give him the command to hunt out there, he is out 600-700 yards before I know it.

He is my first pointing dog and I could not be more happy with him. As I type this he is at my feet chewing on a bone.

I will say though for the first year he was pretty anxious in the house. Than one day out of nowhere he just decided to lay down with my daughter and he has been content inside since.

French britt is the smallest and they are calmer and hunt closer than the american variety.

There are a LOT of absolutes in that statement, and I disagree absolutely with most of them.

Bottom line, I want my dogs to range out. I want them to work a bird. When we hunted North Dakota every year, the guys with flushers and close pointers hunted all day, while we were done at noon, inevitably.

Sure, any dog will end up busting birds. The farther he ranges, the more he will bust. BUT he will FIND far more birds, too, and the odds of bringing a bird down cleanly over a point is far larger than the odds of bringing one down over a flush. I'll take the pointed bird, if at all possible.

As far as a dog not being able to pin a late season bird? Nah, it just takes a dog with both the ability and the experience. JMO, Dutch.

Maybe on late season pressured birds, but other then that, a well trained dog can pin wild birds down all day long. I grew up hunting wild pheasants in WA state in the wheat fields, so I know a little bit about wild pheasants. My pup also spent all summer in S. Dakota chasing wild pheasants and sharpies. But since you call "steady to wing and shot" crap, then Im guessing youve never hunted over a well trained pointing dog. Good dogs learn not to "bust" birds. They will stop the point far enough back and allow you to catch up. If the birds have walked, then you simply release the dog and allow them to relocate. It may take once or twice, but you will be in gun range and have no problem killing wild birds. In your scenerio, your better off with a flushing dog. Why use a pointer if you dont let them point? Here's a link to a really bad video I took with my camera in S. Dakota this year. She had been on the birds for a hundred yards and pointed them. That gave us time to move up and let her relocate. You can see my pup trailing the birds and trusting her nose. Then you can see her run up and pin the birds. Only 1 bird flushes on her before we move up and they start jumping everywhere. My pup was only 14 months old when she was doing this, but she had been on wild bird all summer long. This is also why training, and having a dog broke to wing, shot, and flush is so important. If a dog starts chasing flushed birds, then your screwed. Good dogs won't do that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eNwQaT7xnU




Boise. You will love a Brit. If your hunting Idaho Id look into a big running brit from field trial lines. A dog that runs 400-1000 yards is what most guys call an All Age dog in the FT world. Its not easy to find a dog that runs that big. A Brit that runs 50-200 off foot is pretty easy to find. Thats about the range of my pup off foot, she will go ALOT bigger off horseback. Shes only 17 months old and she know the difference. I wouldn't worry about people telling you that field trial bred dogs are wild and high strung. My pups Sire was the American Brittany Club Amateur All Age National runner up a couple years ago and he won the ABC pheasant classic this year. He has tons of wins on the FT circuit and hes a multiple Field Champion/Amateur Field Champion. According to the trainer my pup is the female version of her daddy. She already has her derby points and is running Adult Gun Dog stakes next weekend. All before she turns 1 1/2. She is a complete sweetheart in the house. Ya, shes got a ton of energy, but Ive never seen a brit that didn't. If you leave them penned up all day and don't excercise them they will be a handfull, but I think thats the same with all hunting dogs. She sleeps in the bed with us and has her spot on the couch. My wife was worried about Brits because a bunch of her patients told her how high strung and crazy they were. My wife now calls MY brit HER brit... Looks like I lost my hunting dog...

Our 3 year old French Britt ranges anywheres from just beyond gun range in the ruffed grouse woods and heavy cattail marshes for pheasants, to a couple hundred yards in the short grass sharptails hang out in. I'd say in average pheasant type covers its around 100 yards. Closer than alot of pointing dogs but not near as close as a flusher. A dog with experience on wild birds will have no problem pointing and relocating until a rooster is pinned down even if it takes you 5 or more minutes to get there. A dog that wasn't good enough to know when to point and hold a rooster pheasant would be useless for pressured ruffed grouse. They are way more jumpy than pheasants.

My free Brittany sure can hunt, and without much training on my part. She loves to retrieve ducks, and with what little training I knew how to give her, she is a great pheasant dog as well.

Just let a pointer hunt for you--they'll bump a few but find a bunch more.

My wife insists that I mention a long-haired Brittany is a "burr nightmare" after the hunt. Sometimes it takes an hour to clean her up with a mat breaker, brush, and scissors.

Yep...mine used to get what we called the "Sport Cut" just before season...all fringe/ "feathers" cut off.... it helped a LOT...
Ingwe

The cockle burr problem is big in the areas I hunt and one of the reasons I selected GWPs after running a springer for the first years. I have been very happy with my GWP and will most likey buy a fourth one but am open to a smaller breed. My last female GWP was sired by the National Chukar champion (Ray Caulkin's Cascade Kennels) and would stay within view 90% of the time so the distance she ranged varied greatly. As we both got older and my desired to kill birds reduced, we both enjoyed hunting closer but I'm guessing that was mainly due from mbe shifting from exclusively hunting chukars to quail and pheasants.

I can't criticize Britts, as I have no experience with them, but I want to put in my .02, in my typical knee-jerk fashion, for my personal favorite gundog, the W P Griffon. A female would be the size you're looking for, are great hunting/pointing dogs, and family dogs extraordinaire. You'll likely pay a bit more for a Griff than for a Britt, but you almost CAN'T go wrong.

JMPO

Show Sheen is your friend.

I can't say anything bad about a good Brit.

Boise,

Since you have good results with a GWP, and it sounds like you want something just a little smaller and closer and tighter, I would think that the wire-haired Griffon female would be ideal.

Though I have a wonderful Britt, I will be looking at a Griffon next time also. The way I see it, if you often hunt with 3 or more people in grass CRP fields, the GSP or Britt is pretty ideal. But if you prefer to mosey around, like to hunt with one or two people near thicker cover, and don't care to 'search' for your dog while hunting, then a Griffon is probably a great choice.

The guys that are letting their dogs range 100 yards and more must be hunting something different that I am. Roosters in the wild often will flush in my experience if you slam the car door after the first week or two of the season. I also dont feel that a far ranging dog will find more birds as my dogs thoroughly work every piece of cover available. Maybe they are hunting massive CRP fields out west? I do know that my dog(s) do a very good job of following a bird at a snail's pace, lock up at times, wait for me, relocate and all that jazz. But I have also seen many, many times when the dog is working at 30 yards and the birds bust at 75. Especially when there are a lot of birds. Nothing worse than watching 40 birds bust out of the habitat you are gonna hunt cuz of a far ranging dog.

I agree, if the dog is busting out lots of birds and not getting any for you, then the dog is not being helpful and should be reined in somehow. what breed of dog are you running? Did they take a lot of training to get them to hunt 'for' you?

The pheasants here are so jumpy right now, it is hardly worth hunting where they been pushed around. One thing that does work is to coordinate with a couple of people just like a deer drive. The blocker needs to stay out of sight and silent on the approach (say the end of a long tree row, or a big slough that narrows down at one end), then the other guy just start poking along at the other end and birds will be running likity-split toward the blocker.

In general, more roosters run out than fly out at this time of year. And if simply bagging birds is your goal, blaze orange is not your friend.

Beats somebody getting shot if you're using a blocker or the party can't walk in a straight line. That's how most accidents happen in SD.

I run a Brit. I have often found the best way to hunt birds this time of year is to go out just you and the dog. keep the dog in really close, say 15-20 yards and just follow the dog if the cover permits. No, and I mean absolutely NO, noise. No bells, no whistles, no spoken word...nothing.

There is no way anyone is going to convince me when you get into this time of year on wild birds that have gotten pressure that a dog ranging out past shotgun range is a good thing. There is no dog that is going to relocate on a wild, late-season rooster with it holding tight.

Also, there is one thing I dont understand about the "steady to wing and shot" theory. and that is simply, why? why would you want to handicap your dog by delaying the retrieve? Reality is that wild roosters dont always die in the air (and especially so if you are shooting steel, but that is topic for anudder day), and if you delay that dog in getting to the place the roody fell, you are making the retrieve much harder than it needs to be. I cant think of a benefit, but maybe there is one. Aside from putting some "master" or "champion" behind its name, what is the benefit to this concept?

I caught a lot of flack about my Brit not being steady to wing and shot..

I never understood the concept either, as you said, they don't always die in the air, and I for one preffered the dog to be under them when they came down...

And no, my Brit didn't have any titles after her name...but I only failed to recover one bird in 12 years with her, and that one still puzzles me...

I have always taken a " results oriented, real world" approach to dog training...I am sure I would suck in competition...

Ingwe

Simple. So you don't shoot your dog. Pheasant hunting is one thing, but having a dog jump after the first shot on a covery rise is dangerous. There has been many, many dogs killed because the dogs jump after the shot, and birds are still comming up. A buddy of mine has dogs he runs in NSTRA, Ive had to hold my shots too many times to count because a low flying bird has a dog on its tail. With a dog thats steady to wing and shot, you don't have to worry about that. If you teach your dog to hunt "dead". Then a wounded bird is not a problem, because the dog knows they can trail and catch the running bird.

Beretta. Why not just get a flushing dog if you only want them 15-20 yards infront of you? IMO a pointing dog that ranges 15-20 yards is useless. Sounds like youd do much better with a flushing dog. Most guys I know are breeding Brittany's to run big, not small. A friend of mine quit breeding to Nolan's Last Bullet because the pups just didn't run big enough. Last weekend he had his pup from "Buddy" and I had my pup out of an All Age Champion. We were running dogs (not really hunting, but we put 10 birds out in the field and let the dogs hunt those birds), my pup found all 10, and she is only 1 1/2 years old. She found all the birds simply because she was covering way more terrain. Trust me, Im not bashing pups from "Buddy", its just that a bigger running dog will find more birds then a smaller running dog every single time. (as long as the big running dog has half a nose).

Some guys are pure meat hunters. They don't really care how the dog performs as long as it finds birds and you can go home with a limit every time. And that is perfectly OK. Some guys hunt because of the birds and the dog work (this is how I am). I don't care if I kill a limit every day over my dog, I dont even shoot a bird my dog doesn't point. I get more enjoyment out of killing 1 or 2 birds and watching my dog run, and handle flawlessly, then I do killing a limit of birds over a dog that runs around with no real clue what they are doing. And trust me, after youve seen enough "good" dogs work, you can tell the ones that are running around and those that are really hunting. Theres a reason Field Trail guys go through a ton of dogs to find a champion. I know plenty of guys who have bought started dogs, that weren't going to make field trial dogs, and were very happy with them. A buddy of mine has gone through several Brits trying to find one that was good enought to run trials. Every single one he sold that couldn't cut it went to great hunting homes with guys that love to hunt over those dogs. And they will kill a ton of birds over those dogs.

My steady to wing and shot experience has always been with someone else's dog although I've had a few points where my dog remained on point mostly because she could see another bird. I don't recall ever seeing one of my pointers leap towards a falling bird but my springer tried to catch them before they landed - much, much faster to retrieve.

Steady to wing and shot was extremely productive in the old Idaho chukar days where we would bump up coveys of several dozen birds and see hundreds of birds each day. The dog holding steady allowed the other hunters to move in and shoot late rising birds. In the old days we wore backpacks to carry the birds, not uncommon to be carrying over ten birds at time. I would have my dog steady to wing and shot if I could and always try but my training skills are not to the same level as others.

Great to learn what others value and the various hunting techniques and thinkings.

A steady dog is a delight to hunt things like quail over. Like the majority here, I want my dog to catch the rooster in his mouth as it flaps down...... Especially when there are a lot of birds, locating a runner is often very difficult.

HOWEVER. Aside from the shooting the dog issue (which is real enough), there are a number of covey birds that alight in multiple flushes. Sharptails and Chukars will flush in threes and fours, rather than the whole covey light up. If the dog turns on the afterburners after the first birds that go up, your party will miss any opportunity at the rest of the little red legged devils.... I can't recall all the times I have actually reloaded and scratched down a bird or two on a second or third flush. FWIW, Dutch.

Hey Dutch, I hear exactly what you're saying having been there, done that sort of experience. I have since moved to carrying an over under and only shooting one bird per rise. I don't know how to describe the experience of allowing the birds to pass after all the years of hammering all I could. Also, learned it was more challenging to only shoot male quail - that cuts down on one's bag pretty quickly.

Best day ever was 28 birds between two of us with a mixed bag of chukar, huns, rooster, and both valley and mountain quail. The mountains give you an idea as too how long ago.

i've hunted over a ton of brits... never saw one that was worth his feed til a buddy who was tired of seeing his dog disappear over ridges that were 3/4 mile away got smart, did his homework and came up with a french brit...
the only way he could ever hope to control his American field trial bred brits was with steady heavy use of a shock collar...
his last 2 dogs (french bred brits) have never had a shock collar on, and he's never regretted that...

i'm putting my money on a griffon....

Neither you, or your buddy has ever hunted over a trained Brit then. There is a reason the winningest dog in NSTRA history is a brit. Just because a dog is "field trial" breed doesn't mean they shouldn't obey commands. The sire of my pup won the American Brittany Club Pheasant classic this year and was the All Age Amateur National runner up 2 or 3 years ago. My pup is a joy to hunt over. She will make her first big run out of the gate and run like hell when you release her. But as soon as she figures out your not following she checks in and hunts within about 200 yards, checking in regularly. Shes only 1 1/2 years old and will smoke 99% of the dogs she runs against. Getting a dog to handle has everything to do with training, and much less to do with the dog. You can teach a big ranging dog to hunt close, you can't teach a boot licker to run big. If your buddy was constantly on the e-collar, chances are he was ruining the dog. Dogs just don't need to be hammered all the time on the collar. Go watch an AKC field trial some day. Watch how well those dogs handle WITHOUT a collar on them (they aren't allowed in trials). The reason those dogs handle well without a collar and your buddy needed one is simple...... Training.

OK thanks... glad we got that settled.....

I'm sure no champion dog trainer, but I'd have to agree about the Brits needing training. My Britt chooses to stay within 100 yards or less, and didn't really take much training on my part.

If somebody has to stay ticking the collar all the time in order to hunt the dog, then something is wrong.

Jetjockey,

Hmmm. I certainly can appreciate hunting different species, my experience has been limited to roosters, huns, sharpies, and ruffies. very little quail experience. Having said that, I have a TON of rooster experience in most of the states in the upper midwest. I am NOT a pure meat hunter by any stretch of the term. I enjoy all parts of the hunt and especially the dog work. Especially late season MN birds at 0 degrees, in the snow, cold, and willow/cattail swamps. That is when a far ranging dog is completely and utterly worthless. The biggest reason being that you would never find it!

So, why a pointer? I like to watch pointers work, love the point and IMO they might have slightly better noses on average (plenny of exceptions, I know). Plus, Brits make a good house dog. And I have seen plenty of "good" dogs work...I kinda dont like the implication that I havent. I have seen some "bad" dog work too and the worst ones are the ones that range too far and blow up the birds out of range. I will acknowledge that you may hunt a different species in different terrain thus they work for you. However, believe me when I say, a far ranging dog where I hunt is better left kenneled and isnt worth the price of their dogfood.

As far as the not shooting your dog part about steady to wing and shot....I and my hunting partners dont take shots at ANY low flying bird. I simply dont need a bird that bad and if you are relying on the fact that your dog is trained to stay steady so you dont shoot them....yikes. How about accidently shooting a person who is for whatever reason in the wrong place? How do you handle that?

I am curious about all the field trials and qualifying stuff. Are these all pen-raised birds? That would explain quite a bit methinks.

Good conversation.

"I am curious about all the field trials and qualifying stuff. Are these all pen-raised birds? That would explain quite a bit methinks."


We hunted a gamefarm last year and I would swear the dog had learned to point the orange flagging tape that the handler had used to mark the birds. Mighty smart dog and worked excellent, but I found points with the wind to his back fairly hard to believe. The dog was not steady to wing and shot and we gave him about 70 chances to hold steady.

I have hunted a few gamefarms and/or pen-raised birds as well and the best way I can describe it is pre-season football. It is marketed as the same, but it isnt. Great for a very young dog, after that it doesnt do much for me. The birds are not nearly the same as wild birds.

To illustrate my earlier point, here is a pic from a deer stand of the stuff I hunt pheasants in. I hunt them right in the willows and you can see how a far ranging dog would be worthless.

Beretta. Some of the trials have liberated birds, some don't..... Even in the above picture, I would still use a big running dog, but thats just me. The Garmin can do wonders for finding small dogs in deep cover.

I understand what you are saying when it comes to late season birds. In that case, a close ranging dog might be better. But in almost every other circumstance, a big running dog will find more birds. Like I said earlier, I grew up hunting pheasants in eastern WA. We never had a problem getting dogs to hold wild birds in the late season. I don't know if our birds were pressured as much as yours, but our dogs had no problem with them. And I grew up with "meat" dogs.....

My pup spent all summer in S. Dakota chasing wild pheasanst and Sharpies. IMO the sharpies were much harder for the dogs to pin then the pheasants. They would bust a few, but youd be amazed how far back the dogs would learn to point. These were all wild birds. From what I saw, pheasants became kids stuff for the dogs. However, I will say that I wasn't watching the everyday dogs work. One of the Brits I saw run was the Purina dog of the Year this year. He scored more trial points then any Brittany in history. All by an amateur trainer/handler. I also got to see this years ABC Amateur National champion, and second runner up. The Amateur champ was also the runner up in the Open All Age Championship. So these weren't your everyday dogs. However, what really amazed me was how well the young dogs could handle their birds. I watched a 1 1/2 year old dog follow a rooster for over 30 yards before he pinned him down without flushing him. IMO that was pretty amazing from a young pup.

If a dog is running big and busting birds then I still say they aren't trained well. I watched a dog point a sharpie in S. Dakota at almost 700 yards away. He held his point, and the bird until we got their. It wasn't really a hunting situation sice we were on horses, but you get the point. A dog that hunts plantation/preserve birds only is going to bust a TON of birds, simply because they aren't used to them. Heck, even the seasoned dogs go "bowling for birds" when they first get back to the plains. But, a good,big running dog will learn quick and find a lot more birds then a small running dog. Even if they do bust a few. Heres a couple pictures of the terrrain the dogs were hunting in S. Dakota. There was a mixture of pheasanst, sharpies, and chickens in the plains. But not a ton of them. The dogs had to cover a lot of ground to find birds. There wasn't a lot of deep cover, so they birds could run if the dogs didn't pin them. At one point, I watched the front dog in the bottom picture point a sharpie that was over 50 yards away in a small draw . The wind was in her nose and blowing right at her. We walked way up around the draw and walked towards the dog. Sure enough as we got half way down 4 sharpies busted all around us. Pretty amazing....... Notice how high the dogs heads are on point. Those birds are a long way infront of them.

You might want to look into getting a French Brittany. They are the smallest pointing breed, and have been bred for the foot hunter that wants a close hunting pointer. The females will run 25-33 pounds. The males 27-35 pounds. The low end is at the end of hunting season. I have 9 of the little devils. They are super affectionate, love kids, travel well, and are insane for birds. They are good house pets.

Mine hunt close. Into the wind they will quarter 25-30 yards to the side and 20-40 yards in front. With the wind they will run out 50-70 yards and hunt back. They hunt further out than my Goldens but where the Goldens will at times soft point, the Fr. Brits are rock solid on points. They are quiet hunters, and I always hunt them with e-collars. I use the vibration/tone features to call them back if they get too far off course, and have the stimulation if needed. No sense blowing a whistle or yelling after being careful to push doors shut on the vehicle instead of slamming them. They aren't the strongest retrievers, but I've lost only one bird the last 5 years, and that one ran down a chuck/badger hole right by where it went down. They do hunt dead, relentlessly pursue wounded birds, and secure the dead and wounded until I walk the few steps myself. I'll settle for that as they work hard, bump few birds, and don't make me chase after them because they can't be controlled in the field.

They got started on released birds in OH at between 16 and 20 weeks, and SD birds the following year. By the end of the first week in SD they had figured out the differences between released and wild birds, and all the other distractions like jack rabbits SD has to offer. I'm planning to head out to SD next week with 5 of them, travel conditions permitting.

Something I didn't realize when I got my first Fr. Brits was that orange and white dogs in tall thick grass are hard to find. Fr. Brits will porpoise throught the tall stuff, but they will also burrow down and root through it to get at the birds. I've come to appreciate black and white coats that are part of the breed standard unlike the Am. Brits. They are a lot easier to keep track of in tall heavy cover.

The most important thing is not the breed, but working with the breeder to get a dog that suites your expectations, temperment, and hunting style.

Nonsense, great dogs are great dogs anywhere, your situation and "thick cover" would be handled with ease by long ranging pointers. you also said that a long ranging pointer cant pin down a late season rooster..really? You obviously haven't worked with a well trained long range dog. The dogs I run range as far as they need to, they dont need to be told, they know how to hunt birds. I'm sorry you haven't had the pleasure of hunting behind one of these great dogs, your generalizations are an obvious lack of experience, IMO.


This pic is in Kansas, in December. I hope some day you have the pleasure of a great pointing dog ranging out, then turning in and pinning those running buggers between yourself and him. You could hunt a dog at gun range here, but your gonna walk along ways, likely never to see a bird.




the same dog can do the thick stuff, like I said, great dogs adjust accordingly

Well. I might have to put my money where my mouth is. Im hopefully going pheasant hunting in PA on thursday. The owner of the lodge told me last night that conditions weren't great because of the snow. Ive never heard anything like that before! ....... He said the snow knocked down the grasses and there isn't any cover with the snow. He said the farm fields are fine but pointing dogs don't work real well because the pheasants can run so much. I believe he said they were sweet gum fields? (have no idea what those are, or even if they exist. all I know is they don't have em out west were Im from ;-) .... Anyways, they hunt springers at the lodge. He didn't sound real enthusiastic when I told him I wanted to bring my 1 1/2 year old brittany. Luckily, she was on pheasants all summer. She learned how to pin them pretty quickly. Her trainer told me her bird work is way above a 1.5 year old dog. He says she acts more like almost every 3 year old dog he trains. But, she hasn't been on wild pheasants in about 4 months, so it could be interesting... Im hoping she remembers real quick, and doesn't go bowling for birds. If they even hold a little bit, shes gonna nail em.

rosco,
I have plenty of experience and I have hunted behind many excellent dogs. I told some of my hunting buddies about this post and you should have heard the laughter. Now these ain't weekend warrior hunters either, but dedicated, experienced hunters who have shot more roosters than I could count.

"Nonsense, great dogs are great dogs anywhere, your situation and "thick cover" would be handled with ease by long ranging pointers." That tells me you have never hunted our birds.

I was out this weekend hunting the farm in the pic. We snuck in from about half a mile away, never made a sound. Not whistle, not a word, not a bell, nothing. On top of that, we were walking in fresh snow. But of course walking through the willows and grass made a little noise. The pointers stayed close...30 yards and in. The birds? They all flushed from 100 to 500 yards out. Except one rooster that allowed my brit to track him for about 30 yards before he got up. However, he got up about 35 yards crosswind of where my dog was locked up. Explain to me how your dog is going to hold birds for minutes when my dog cant get within 500 yards of them? Do your dogs have a stealth mode? I believe that you have a lack of experience hunting pressured birds. You are lucky in that regard. Believe me when I say, far ranging dogs will NOT work where we hunt. The birds here are unbelievably skittish. Literally, if you slam the door on your truck, birds will erupt a quarter mile away.

The other problem with far ranging dogs is when then encounter big flocks of pheasants. Especially when there is snow. Too many eyes and ears and the whole group erupts.

We have some pretty good late season rooster hunting here. Maybe not up to SD standards, but we usually each get our 3 birds per day. I have hunted them extensively in IA, SD, ND, MT, and KS as well and I dont believe I will ever trade in my close working dogs for ones bumping birds too far away. Heck, my close ranging dogs bump birds too far away fairly often. They are at 30 yards and bump birds cross wind and down wind all the time. Birds they (nor ANY dog) could possibly know was there.

After reading all the posts, Hard to make sense of which: Far or close ranging dog is best. Both have valid points. Growing up with GSP they would range a lot farther out chuckar hunting than pheasant hunting. The cover was really thick for pheasants and I think they just couldn't cover it as fast so they would slow down on there own, But got out there to cover the ground and find those chuckar didn't have to teach any of that they just knew. One thing we all agree on, Nothing hardly better than watching a dog do the magic they were born to do. Lot's of good info here guy's..
Thanks all.

I wrote a long sarcastic response, but to keep it civil, i deleted it.

I hope you have luck for the remainder of the season.

Watch the video link I posted. There were probably 30+ birds in the flock. You can see 10-15 flush in the video. They didn't erupt in an entire group. She had them pinned and they started pusting 1 at a time as we walked up. Easy pickings if we were hunting...

I've hunted over pointers a number of times here in MT, some very good ones too. When the birds are holding for them it's fun - nice easy shots at close birds. When birds are skittish or in very light cover, a pointer just serves as a flusher. Now if that same dog was ranging out to 100+ yds we'd just be watching birds flush as opposed to hunting. One of the main reasons I'd rather just hunt over a flusher, they work the same regardless of what mood the birds are in.