Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Rem/WW/Lapua/Norma/Nosler brass?

In the middle of the night I decided to weigh some 257 and 7-08 brass. Using new, unfired WW brass in each caliber, I weighed 15 rounds of each(257 +P and 7-08). I was really surprised at the results - as much as 12 gr difference within the 15 rounds, with +/- 3 grains average difference. I was reading that Nosler brass is weighed +/- 0.5 grains before being boxed, but couldn't find any info on Norma/Lapua brass.
With the Remington/Winchester brass costing about 45 cents and Lapua nearly $1 each, with Norma/Nosler in between.
I have noticed that my 7-08 and 257 Roberts will usually shoot 3-shot groups around 1" or slightly less(handloads),but there are a lot of groups that go 1/2-3/4", but not consistently. So now I am wondering if the lack of consistency in the brass is causing some of the fliers.
So my questions are: 1. What is the difference between Norma/Lapua/Nosler/Rem/WW brass?
2. Have you seen any noticable difference in accuracy when using Lapua/Norma/Nosler brass?
3.Do you think the more expensive brass is worth the extra cost?
4. Any other comments you wish to add would be greatly appreciated.

I mostly shoot 308 Win. and I've used brass from Federal, WW, RP, Nosler and Lapua. Without a doubt the Lapua is the best of those I've tried for the 308.

If you're shooting way out there or if you're shooting short range BR matches, segregating cases into tightly matched groups by weight may be of some value. But for several accurate sporters and a heavy barreled 223 shooting out to 300 yards I've found making sure the cartridges are assembled straight is the quickest way to consistently get the best a particular rifle can deliver. Uniform case necks make this much easier and Lapua brass is usually much better than the others in this respect.

I would cull that case that's 12 grains out, but +/- three grains for a 308 case doesn't bother me.

Ya gotta ask yourself if your gun will notice first.

A factory gun is going to notice more on runout than anything; any tinkering more than that, probably not worth it.

For straightness/weight and the cartridges you list I'd say Lapua, Norma, Nosler; for the 257, Rem cases and I don't have nor have I played with a 7-08.

I'm thinking your WW+P 257's to be really out of whack, your 7-08's not so much?

I use to do all that stuff, and it the end, I just size and load and shoot them. Most hunting rifles would never tell the difference. Now I would not know about the BR games or shooting in 1000 yard matches. I am more interested in putting a chunk of lead into a heart of a Deer Elk or Moose than anything else. On the other hand if it makes you happy by all means do so.

When I first started reloading I got caught up in the hype about weighing cases. There is also the whole thing of consistant case volume by measuring water grain capacity versus just weighing cases. As time went on I started to read more and more about how unimportant this really is. What finally cleared things up for me was realizing that the case itself is only a small part of the big picture. Once a round is fired it starts down the tube and the volume of the case/barrel starts to increase. By the time the bullet reaches the muzzle the volume of the entire case/barrel is so great that any tiny differences in case weight/volume is just too insignificant to have any affect on accuracy.

As mathman said though 12 grains, or even less, would probably be enough to start culling. I would also have a concern with how consistent the wall thickness is in cases with that large a weight differences.

At some point case volume does come into play as with reducing loads when going from standard cases to thick military cases.

I've got a .308 that I reload for and had saved cases for it from factory ammo that I had bought back in the 80s. I have a couple of boxes each of federal factory standard loads and federal premiums. They have exactly the same headstamp but there is a rather large difference in weight between the two groups. I can't remember for sure, but it was something like 8, 10, or 12 grains difference.

I still weigh cases but it's just more for peace of mind than accuracy. I like knowing that there isn't a gremlin in the bunch. I like to think that sorting to within 2 percent of total weight is more than good enough. Does it make a difference in accuracy - no - but it gives me a warm fuzzy. The benchrest idea of grouping to within .2 grains is just hooey to me.

fish head

I agree, and I've found good case necks make low runout much easier to get.

With good loads and bullet TIR < .004" I have several sporter weight rifles with factory barrels and chambers that are more than capable of sub-2" three shot groups at 300 yards. This is with thrown powder charges.

I've often wondered (and even asked here on this forum, without a single response) why people weigh empty cases alone rather than weighing fired case capacity. To the extent that segregating cases for reasons of this type is necessary, segregating by fired capacity is the only thing that makes any sense at all to me.

I only shoot varmints, game animals, really rabid cans & bottles & such, and paper, though. Maybe I'd do more case and other prep stuff if I was shooting for money.

Man, I don't get that much variation in the 06 size WW brass, much less 7x57 or 308 based cases--are you sure they are of the same lot#?

You may want to try and segregate the brass into batches according to +/- a few grains and see if you get better groups with each batch.

Having said that, I wholeheartedly agree with the other guys--neck-bullet alignment is your best path to accuracy in a hunting rifle.


Casey

I agree. 12grs is an awful lot with one manufacturer. With some sweat equity, the domestic brass can be brought up to Lapua standards by weight sorting and neck turning and such. The advantage of Lapua is you can pretty much load it right from the box.
I don't weigh brass. And I consider my first step in case prep is to fire form it. After that, when the cartridges are complete, I fire cull them. Any flyers are marked and given a second chance. If they fail the second time, they go in the brass bucket. You can cull quite a lot of Rem brass before you come up with the price of a box of Lapua.
Whether or not the Lapua is worth the extra money or not is a personal question. You are gonna (perhaps) gain a degree of improvement with the high priced brass but you ain't gonna change no pray and spray group into a one holer. Whether that .25" or less is worth it is up to you.
I have used a lot of Lapua brass and it is some good stuff. IMO, it's not worth the extra if you're just going hunting. I've won quite a few factory matches using Rem brass that was neck turned and fire culled. My experiences with Norma have not been too happy. I don't know about WW or Nosler.

Thanks for the input folks! It sounds like its time to try some Lapua brass, but I will save that for the Tikka 7-08,which will hopefully eliminate those random fliers. I have 100 rounds each of WW brass for the 30-06 and 257, so I will try sorting them by weight just to see what happens. At least with the Lapua brass, I won't have to chamfer primer pockets and debur flash holes. That will save a little time.
I appreciate everyones input. Thanks!

I know I mentioned weighing cases but I would have to agree with everyone else that time spent in finding good cases deals more with concentricty than any thing else. Buy a concentricity gauge and sort by neck runout. Use the concentricity gauge to develop a loading process that will give you concentric ammo. This will make more of a difference in accuracy than anything else you can do. It has for me.

As far as fliers go, I would look more towards concentricity, powder type and weight or seating depth than equal weight/volume cases.

fish head