Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Further discussion of the 223 Ackley Improved

Seems to me that a 8 or 9 twist would let a guy shoot the 40's and go all the way up to 75's, almost no down side. My heavy 223AI has an 8 twist broughton and likes everythng I have shot in it, 50's were as light as I went. My light 223 is not an AI yet but seems to like 40's up to 60's. Both of these guns ae new to me so I have lots of load developement to do yet. But my 9 twist Pacnor shoot's the heck out of factory 40gr TAP ammo.

This is the exact load that I use with 55 gr soft points, BT's/VMax/BK's....excellent performance. The 26" 1:9 twist factory Savage barrel provides 3560 fps with this load.

Well, I started it some time ago. I went with a 223 AI. Kinda hodge podge thrown together, but it's been a "meat getter" since I've had it.

Went with a Pac Nor 1-8" twist. Found a McMillan for $250 and threw it together. I've tried many loads for it. It shoots a 40BlitzKing amazingly well. And it shoots the 75Amax pretty well. Not amazing at 200 yards, but it holds almost the same group size to 425 yards. Cna't get the 53 TSx to shoot very reliably though.

A bit put off with the fps. I've tried to chase other's load data, and I must have a slow rifle. Only a 21" tube I think. Brad turned me onto a 75 Amax load with Rl-15. I just tried 26.3 of RL-15 with a non-molied Amax last week, and it was too hot. Molied it seems OK, but this is in the desert and was 80+ at 4000ft. Think I am getting 2980ish. Honestly only about hot standard 223 Rem fps. This is will Winchester fireformed brass.

I shot some coyotes with it this season. But honestly, flopped around between 40Blitz, 55Vamx and 75Amax, in never really got a handle on pelt damage. I did send a few 53 TSXs into some coyotes. I really liked this bullet. Got stern to azzwhole penetration on one dog at 60 yards. But no mess. No mess on a broadside, and a bit of a mess through the back of the head while looking at the FoxPro in the mesquite on one. But that's to be expected on a face exit.

I am anxious for the Ruger Hawkeye in 204. I will grab one. And it may put the 223AI in the safe for a while. I still read all the posts I can on the 204. Many happy shooters. Still think I made the right move for down here in NM. .224 legal for lions and deer. The 223AI with a 53TSX is a great truck gun should one run across anything legal.

I'm running moly on all my 223AI bullets. 26.2gr of '15 gave me 3050 w/moly'd 75Amax in Lapua brass. My R-P brass took about 26.5gr of '15 to get the same 3050. This was all in my first 223AI. The second one (which I'm shooting now) is getting 3020 w/26.5gr of '15 and moly'd 75's, in Winchester brass. To be honest, I've only shot that load in it. I haven't tried to work up any faster. I shot the 26.2 load in that second rifle and it was slow. I bumped it up to 26.5 and it was close, and the load shot very well all the way out to 1K, so I haven't even gotten around to going hotter with it yet.

I'm going to revisit H-335 in this second rifle and see if I can get some more speed out of it, but if not, it's not a really big concern to me and I'm happy with how it shoots now. Both rifle's were built with 22" Rock Creek Barrels.

That's a good looking rifle JJ.

TAC was even better in my rifle, although slower. Of course metered very consistantly, but the FPS wasn't there. More like 2875ish.

Would have stayed that route, but with the local Sportsman's folding up, I've never found another can of Ramshot anything since. So I gave up. RL-15 meters good enough for knocking out 50 rounds here and there. And I am getting 100+ more fps.

Thanks for the load help Brad.

Brad - don't forget to try H4895 for the heavier bullets.

I am still working on the RL15 info provided previously.

Where are you starting and what are you considering Max?

From Hodgdon's website:
69 GR. SIE HPBT Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.235" 24.0 2870 41,100 CUP 26.0C 3069 49,700 CUP

In two AR15's (24" & 16" barrels) and four 223's with 26" barrels, 25.0 seems to be the accuracy node for standard 223's.

The AI's can go a bit above that, but, please work up in your rifle/brass/etc.

Bringing this thread up a notch...and adding a little info on a recent build.

Had a Shilen Select Match 1:8 twist in .224 barrel here for a year or two because I could not decide which caliber I wanted to make it in to.

Gent on savageshooters suggest a 223 AI Long. So, with some new 204 Ruger brass, my trusty 223 AI reamer, I went to work.

Neck size the 204 to 223 size (which, makes it a 222 Magnum - what 204's started life as actually) and built the rifle.

The barrel contour is a light varmint/heavy sporter, which is what I wanted to build so that I could actually have a "carry" rifle.

By chance, I picked up 800 of the 80 gr AMax bullets at a sweet price, so, that put me in the shop with all the parts.

A new Stevens in 308 donated it's action for the build, after selling the factory barrel and stock. Did I mention that NEW actions, well, they actually suck. Not smooth yet. Oh well.

Results...not quite done with the final, final, final load workup, but, yes, as you guessed it, several powders do very well. H4895, H414/Win 760, Benchmark, and RL15. Currently, my 80 cases have RL15 loaded under the 80 gr bullets. NOT pushing the envelope, but velocity is in the 3050-3100 range now.

Accuracy is VERY good, as is expected.

Charge weights under the eighties?

Normal disclaimer - this was from MY barrel, from my reloading bench. Work up your loads for safety sake....and your sake too!!

SHOT VELOCITY benchmark
1 3033.2 25.5
2 3034.9 25.7
3 3056.7 25.9
4 3070.2 26.1
5 3064.3 26.3
6 3108.2 26.5
7 3147.1 26.7


SHOT VELOCITY RL15
1 3040.7 26.2
2 3052.4 26.4
3 3058.4 26.6
4 3091.7 26.8
5 3100.4 27

SHOT VELOCITY AA2460
1 2855.4 24.2 to 26.
2 2881.4
3 2914.9
4 2908
5 2946.7
6 2946.7
7 2948.3
8 2991.3

SHOT VELOCITY H414
1 2836.4 27.2 to 29.
2 2872.5
3 2892
4 2915.6
5 2948.3
6 2992.2
7 2992.2
8 3046.5

SHOT VELOCITY 24.5 - 26.3 H4895 80 gr Amax
1 2833.5
2 2910.3
3 2922.6
4 2933.4
5 2948.3
6 2948.3
7 3009.3
8 2997.8

Thanks!

No rifle chambered for such; just comparing.

Funny thing is, they appear to be spot on.....

Thanks again.

Nate

Nate - what are you comparing with?

A 1-9 222 Magnum (223 AI pretty much the same capacity) with 75 A-Max-77 Nosler bullets.

Friend is debating on a 22-204 or 222 Mag AI, again very similar to what you have.

222 Mag AI is exactly what I have. I used the 204 brass because it is more plentiful and a lot less money to buy.

Post how it turns out.

Shot the "Super Duece" at 1000 yards. 80 gr AMax's over RL15, well..were VERY good. Did not paper it, water filled 2 liter bottles were the targets of the day.

I have two Hart Barrels in 223 AI, Minimum spec chambers, zero freebore, .2245 throat both in 1-14 twists; one barrel is 23" while the other is 27".

With IMI brass, 7 1/2 primers, N133 with the 50's will stomp 3850 fps which is my Max load. With N135 with the 55's, I'm at 3650+. Subtract 100 fps for the 23" barrel.

With IMI brass, 7 1/2's, 40g Noslers, with N133, I am getting 4175 fps with accuracy that is simply hard to believe.

In my standard 223 with IMI brass, Minimum spec Match chamber, zero freebore, .2245 throat, 26", 1-14 twist hart barrel I and partner get the following with N135

40's-3900+
50's-3600-3650

N135
55's-3550

My loads with Benchmark mimick others, as you can see, Benchmark is SLOW compared to N133 and is even worse on the 55's. Benchmark is however extremely accurate, but no more accurate than 133 or 135.

For hard use on a target rich dog town, where I am firing as fast as I can load and acquire targets, I would opt for a ball powder to make it easier on the barrel...learned that lesson in the late 70's and early 80's...when very few shot dogs and the towns were miles wide and long.

Anybody tried IMR 8208 XBR yet? Purchased the Hodgdon 2010 Annual Manual yesterday and this powder, of course, is on the cover.

Copied this from Hodgdon's website:

36 GR. BAR VG FB IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.200" 25.4 3548 44,500 PSI 27.0C 3728 50,600 PSI
40 GR. NOS BT IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.280" 25.0 3433 41,500 PSI 26.7C 3659 50,400 PSI
45 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.240" 24.5 3287 41,700 PSI 26.8 3550 52,000 PSI
50 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.210" 23.5 3111 40,500 PSI 25.8 3407 53,300 PSI
53 GR. SIE HP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.200" 23.0 3032 41,400 PSI 25.4 3310 53,400 PSI
55 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.200" 23.0 3024 42,100 PSI 25.3 3268 53,100 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.250" 21.5 2857 43,500 PSI 23.6 3057 51,700 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.200" 21.0 2783 43,000 PSI 23.1 2995 52,400 PSI
69 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.235" 21.0 2696 42,200 PSI 23.8 2959 52,900 PSI
70 GR. SPR SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.140" 20.0 2621 44,100 PSI 21.8 2797 52,800 PSI
75 GR. JLK VLD IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.250" 20.0 2538 40,800 PSI 22.7 2804 53,900 PSI
77 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.260" 20.5 2535 41,800 PSI 22.8 2766 53,700 PSI
80 GR. SIE MK IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.550" 19.0 2456 44,400 PSI 21.0 2628 52,900 PSI
90 GR. SIE HPBT IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.380" 18.0 2270 45,600 PSI 19.6 2419 52,800 PSI

A thread and cartridge worth bumping.....

I hear good things about the chambering................