Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Am I asking to much from Eberlestock

I think the JP9 may have solved some of the problems of the J series pulling away from your back. Haven't tried one, but after messing with a J107 I'd guess the JP9 would be a real improvement.

I'd like to see the JP9 in tougher fabric with the solid colors (dry earth).

Ovis,

We don't charge for warranty repairs. I'm not sure why you would have gotten that impression. We do, however, ask people to send us warranty items; it shouldn't surprise you that we live in a world where every so often, people who don't actually own a product try to scam companies into sending them free stuff because they have a good story about how they have to have a "replacement" right away. I recently had a guy trying to talk me out of an X2 because his "supposed" one had a bad zipper. He refused to send the pack to us, wouldn't tell us where he got it, and when I asked him to describe which zipper it was, he couldn't even describe the pack; couldn't even confirm that it had our logo on it. Obviously he didn't have one. Anyway, common company practice, and common sense, says that in most circumstances people have to send a pack in to the manufacturer for warranty service. <p>Having said that, let me say that a) we have an almost zero rate of return for defective products. So please don't imply that we have lesser quality. They have a lifetime guarantee, for heaven's sake, and if anybody would know that there was a problem, it would be me. b) We run about 5 hard-used repairs a month, out of tens of thousands of packs out there. Again, statistically nil. c)The send-a-product-for-service rule isn't a hard rule. We're reasonable people, and we understand difficult circumstances, and we rise to the occasion when necessary. If the original poster of this thread had just a little more patience, and would have had a normal conversation with the person on our end of the phone, I'm sure that we would have fixed his issue to his satisfaction. People just need to be reasonable. And in truth, the fact that he bought the item from Cabela's is the perfect answer -- the retail system is set up so that customers work through retailers. Calling us, or any other manufacturer, in the blind and demanding overnight service for something, when we don't know you from Adam, probably doesn't happen anywhere. Let's reverse this situation and say he bought something from us but called Cabela's to get it fixed. Cabela's would have tried to help, but ultimately would have referred him back to us if he needed overnight service, which is an exact mirror of the situation that he was griping about.
d) If you have a pack that failed you, as you say, then you should send it to us. It's pretty likely that you'll get a new pack in return, and it ain't that hard.

Cheers,

GE
Eberlestock

Good on you Glen, Can't ask for more than that.

Thanks for clarifying what went on with the OP here.

I'll be checking out your scabbards.

Great response Glen! I think your products are great and some people will not be happy no matter what you do to fix things! You are a class act!

The issue of overnight.... I don't think they shoudl be responsible, I'd just be happy to pay the overnight fee as it was ME that F'd around and bought too late.... My opinion anyway.

And Shaq has a hard on for ES... our experiences with a number of out of state hunts is that stitching came loose on the chest strap on one out of 5 packs in the last 4 years basically of using them for wilderness elk backpack hunts.

I now have a Kifaru pack, but in all honesty stil can't say that it carries weight any better or worse than the ES packs...

I will say the Kifaru seems better built, but then I've only had the one issue with the ES and continue to beat those packs up and often the Kifaru stays home because the ES is more comfortable to my body...

Nope,

Bad luck forsure. Hard on? If you like em and have had great results go ahead keep using them. Wish I could claim otherwise. It's an Internet Forum. People ask, and I tell them my experience. I'd not want a failure(s) to happen to anyone else where I see a problem.

You and everyone else can take it for what it's worth. And your more than welcome to look back at my posts on these packs. You can see for yourself I've stated my opinuion and in several posts I've also said that Glenn and his staff have top notch customer service service and always took care of me.

Now, if I had a hard on would why would I claim that Glenn and his company have great customer service.

I also think that the way Glenn has handled himself on this topic speaks volumes about his charcter. A leason Marc with Wiggys should be paying attention to. I've never owned wiggys anything. And won't because of the way he responds to folks on here.


So try not to be such a Jackass..

Glen,

Thanks for the reply. I apologize if I got your hackles up a bit, but I can imagine someone who has worked to build a product doesn't much appreciate some faceless/nameless mope flapping his gums on the internet about his product. Being a business owner myself I understand your frustration when someone has something derogatory to say. A lot of times it is hard to undo bad press, whether it is warranted or not.

I actually went back and read your Lifetime Warranty. I got to agree with what you have written in there. Things wear out and as a manufacturer you shouldn't have to be responsible for this. I also agree you shouldn't have to replace or repair something that somebody tears up because they are stupid. I had always offered a deal when I ran bear hunts, if you don't see a bear you get to come back for free. I found out one hunter was seeing bears every night, but saying he had not. He was holding out for a monster and figured he would be able to come back for free hunt if he didn't see the one he wanted. After being put on the spot he had a change of heart and changed his story that he hadn't seen anything he wanted to shoot, so I sympathize with your position. I have also attended the ATA and SHOT shows and observed what we always called the "vultures", the guys that circled booths and wanting something for nothing.

I can't tell you the model of the pack I had, but I can describe it for you very clearly and the issue. The pack was in a brushy green color, not sure of the official camo name but it looks similar to the Mossy Oak brush camo, but it was a light sagebrush greenish almost blue color. The center of the pack had a black mesh with small holes that were about 1/8 inch big. The issue I had was the black piping along the edges where it was sewn together to the side pouches was coming undone. I did call and explain the situation, did not ask for free overnight shipping or anything like that. It was the first of July or so and wanted it back by Sept for moose season. When I was told there would be a charge for repair (not sure if the fact that I said I was a guide/outfitter put me in the "not normal wear" category) I decided to fix it myself. I wasn't pleased hearing that I was going to be billed for sewing it up, I simpy said I'll fix it myself. I sewed some webbing into the edge and also added a three more straps across the webbing area so I could cinch the load down better. Looking at your web page and it looks like the new packs have something like this now, but my pack only had a bungy type cord.

I used it for moose season and my sewing job sucked and it came apart again. I can't really blame my piss poor workmanship on you, but I was miffed. I guess when you have another guy standing there chuckling at you a person doesn't make smart decisions and she went up in flames. The pack had hauled about 15 bears out of the bush and actually worked pretty darn good for slipping a boat gas tank into for packing across our portage.
At that time I felt the material wasn't up to handling the long term wear and tear, but have not used or put my hands on one of your new packs (3 or more years I am guessing) I will step up and apologize as it would be unfair for someone to compare my outfitting set up from its first years to how it was after 5 or 6 years of tweaking. In looking at your web page I am guessing that as issues arise you tackle them and most likely hammer them out. Looking back, I should have mailed you the pack with a note telling you what failed and gave you the chance to address it, if you didn't want to fix it then that would be that.

Here are couple observations of the pack. I liked the shoulder harness, was comfortable and adjusted to my wide carcass well. Hip belt had good padding, but would have preferred the padding to be a bit stiffer. The pack was a little "squishy" with a heavy loaded and you had to have it sucked down pretty tight for it not to feel like it was rocking back and forth when you loaded up the meat compartment, but was fine with just gear in the side pockets. If you wanted to consistently carry 50-60 lbs loads this pack wasn't really for me, but really like the idea of being able to be pretty light with my knives/flashlight/bug spray/etc and then be able to skin a bear and have a place to stuff it and not have to try to bring a pack frame along to. Thanks for taking the time to jump on the forum and share with us. Maybe I'll pick up a pack for this fall and see if I can destroy it, after all I am a "gearaholic", Best of luck in 2010, Casey

Jackass here.... you post how they fall apart, I post how they don't..... I'd say that I have a hard on for hating ruger, I chime into every thread I can find on them.... you do the same RE ES... my opinion anyway.

Nothing personal tween you and I of course... just our experiences are different. And that is the point of showing you don't like em and I do...

Not sure how I can change anything other than to edit the words hard on out.... Small world really to get hung up on things like that.

In my experience Eberlestock makes some great packs. I have the J107 and an X2. They are each well designed and assembled. I'm sure there are other great packs out there, but the Eberlestock is certainly one of the good ones.

Shaq,

I'm not getting this. You say you went through 3 J105s in a row. Do I know you? Because I've never known anybody who has been through more than one pack and a replacement if there was a problem with the first, who was not in the end completely satisfied with our product. I'm saying this because you seem bent on implying that our product is "lesser" than whatever brand is currently in your favor. And I'm telling you that the way to promote one brand is not to diminish another. So go ahead and tell everybody how much you love whatever brand you love. But if you haven't had current experience with Eberlestock, then maybe you should ask someone who has.

I'm saying this because we have just come through hunting season, and about the only problem, aside from small anomalies that happen to any product (things that arise from hidden rigging problems on sewing machines, for example), the only problem that we've experienced recently has been a minor nuisance of some broken buckles. Does this mean that Eberlestock uses sub-standard buckles? No, and here's a lesson on buckle technology for you. There are basically two companies in the world who make good backpack buckles, and you'll find them on all of the brands out there: ITW and National Molding (whose products usually have the WooJin label on them). Everybody, including us, uses acetyl (Delrin) buckles from one of these two companies. Most of us have filtered it down to a choice of the buckles that have the fewest number of failures. Now, although acetyl is great stuff and the best overall choice, it has the disadvantage of being a little brittle. So once in a while a part is going to break; usually when it's been shut in a car door, or a horse steps on it. Now, you can blast away at the company whose product had this buckle on it that broke on you, but you would have had the same problem with any company's buckle, so the fact is if you're wired to do this, then you're not really broadcasting good information.

Now, my final point for you is this: we haven't made the J105 in over four years. That was actually a great pack, and out of a few thousand that we produced, I've only seen about half a dozen come back for warranty service. So it had a pretty good track record. Maybe somewhere back in my memory banks there should be a note of some conversations with you about the quality and durability of our products, but I'm telling you and whoever else is reading this that I don't have it. So if it's true that you went through three of our J105s, then I just have to ask you to get in touch with me and explain to me where all of that went. Maybe we lost track of you. But if you're just flaming us because you had some problem that can have happened with any product, then I will ask you to bow out of that practice and acknowledge that in the meantime, our products have evolved, and we've got many thousands of not only satisfied, but enthusiastic users out there -- many of whom are hard-core, haul heavy loads of meat every day, professional guides.

I'm going to answer another post in a moment, regarding the early model packs that Eberlestock produced, in order to put this "quality" issue to rest. I invite you to look for that below.

-- Glen E
Eberlestock

"HI JACK!" Since were on the topic and all you people think theses are great packs, I got one for sale. Don't ask me why i am getting rid of it or we will have another 5 pages on this thread. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...Re_Eberlestock_J104_Backpack#Post3632275

Casey,

You had our very first-generation model J1 "Just One," which was the first pack we made for the retail market. We made 400 of them, in either Prairie Ghost or Realtree Hardwoods Green (yours was PG). Now, here's a little story about how you go from making hunting packs for yourself with an Alice pack frame and a Speedy Stitcher to making retail products for the masses: you experiment a little, and if you're smart you get some professional help. In our case, we hired some people who had come out of The North Face's backpack department. They helped me to take my concept and turn it into our first production model. They knew backpacks, but they didn't know squat about hunting packs. So, I went out and researched the supply chain, finding what was then the "best" hunting pack fabric, made by a U.S. manufacturer. "Virtually waterproof," "tougher than leather," were some of the advertised features. I think that the manufacturer has since folded its tent, but in 2003 they were the best thing available. So we built 200ish of the J1s in each color. We shortly discovered that for some reason, the Hardwoods Green packs were failing at an unexpected rate, while the Prairie Ghost ones were not. Nobody ever knew why; both fabrics looked and tested the same. Was this my fault? I dunno, but I learned something from it, and secondly I took full responsibility for it.

So, I fixed that problem. We found a new source of fabric, spec'd our own, put a proprietary water barrier into it, and developed a reinforced way of constructing our packs with it. We found a new factory that understood what this new animal was that we were inventing (when we introduced our J104 model pack in 2004, to our knowledge it was the most complex pack ever produced, with more parts and sewing operations than had ever gone into a backpack). And we soon fired the "experts" who somehow just didn't get the fact that we were pushing our quality and construction techniques beyond anything that the mountaineering world had done before.

When we started in '03, the generally accepted load limit for an internal frame pack was 60 lbs; a really good one might be spec'd at 80 lbs. By 2004, we were making internal frame packs that didn't have a man-portable weight limit. There are other companies who soon got on this bandwagon, but the reason that I'm telling you this is to show that this is all pretty recent history; in 2003, before he knew who I was, I was standing with Dana Gleason in a pack fitting demonstration that he was doing, and he told an elk hunter that he needed to get an external frame pack for carrying the kinds of loads that he was asking about.

So the point is, Eberlestock was one of the first companies that raised the bar. Have we learned something since 2003? You bet. Have our products evolved? Obviously. Did that '03 model J1 that you're referring to above, as revolutionary as it was, basically suck in comparison to what we make now? I'll be the first to say YES. But the other thing that I'll tell you is that that J1 has my name on it, and this means that I'll support it. If you have it laying in a closet somewhere, and it isn't what you think it should have been, send it back to me and I'll support you on it.

Happy Trails,

Glen E
Eberlestock

Before I sign out for the year (no kidding, as much fun as it is for me to correspond with you guys, I'm a little busy, so don't expect me to keep on going on like this), I want to make one more clarification. Here and there in the forums, there are people who say that our scabbard packs "sag" under a heavy load. To address this issue, I first have to say that I use our packs myself, and I know how to use them -- and I have learned through time how to use them better. There are three simple things at play in most cases with regards to the way that our packs perform under a load:

1. Many people don't use the compression straps correctly. We put BIG compression straps on our packs for a reason. First, they are great for quickly banging a load, say an elk quarter, onto a pack. Secondly, they are meant to draw the load into your back, much like tying your shoes draws your foot into the bed of your sole. I often see pictures of people with our packs who have the compression straps dangling at the side. If this person were complaining to me about why their foot moves around inside of their boot, the first question I'd ask is, "why don't you tie your shoes?" The same thing applies to the pack.

2. Many people wear their packs too low. Our packs are meant to embrace the top of the hip; the mid-point of the padded belt should be directly outboard of the top of the arc of your hipbone, along your side. You need to really crank the belt snug in order to keep the pack here, which will also draw the load of the pack into your lumbar.

3. We make packs with adjustable internal aluminum stays. Most people just take the factory bend and use it. But if you want to get a true fit, and the right kind of performance, out of your pack, you should bend the stays so that their contour drives the shape of the pack into a shape that matches the contour of your back. This is pretty simple, and we'll be putting some better instructions for doing it on eberlestock.com in the near future.

Glen E
Eberlestock

Hey 175, nice pictures. Here's my question for you though. Have you ever even seen an Eberlestock pack? Because, although I respect the company who you are promoting, and I don't try to build our brand by diminishing others, I have to tell you that right now there are a heck of a lot of people in the military that are placing orders on our website, and through our retailers. For some reason, in some places, people seem to think that we've got something going on that other companies aren't getting.

For example, a pretty sizable Ranger unit based in Italy recently deployed to Afghanistan. We were getting so many orders, for every flavor of pack that we make, going to this same APO address that we finally had to ask who these guys were. In conversations with them, I was curious about why they were picking our packs over others. They told me that it was because, in their opinion, our packs worked the best in the mountains. Now that those guys are in country, we are still getting orders from them, which tells me that the guys who don't have them are seeing them in action and deciding that they want the same thing.

Again, I'm not knocking what's on your back. I'm just saying that I don't think it has much to do with what my company is doing. Maybe you haven't seen our gear because up until now we've focused mainly on scout/snipers. If you go ask around in that community, you will see that we have a pretty impeccable reputation there. Now, we're starting to open our line to other products designed for other missions. If you haven't seen one, maybe you ougtta take a look before you make your shout out.

Glen Eberle
Eberlestock

Why don't you send him a current one for T&E? If your stuff has evolved and is the best, he'll want it. If it's not, you'll get some honest side by side comparisons to what works best for him.

Two packs were replaced by Sportsmans Warehouse and the third I just wanted my money back. Between stiching, buckles, and material alone I was not at all satisfied. You also are more than welcome to go back through my posts if your "that" concerned.

I also sent you an e-mail at one point in time and expressed my concerns with your packs. My e-mail was nothing more than hoping you'd listen to my concerns and consider my concerns. Intent was to help you confront valid issues that are issues.

Rost, himself is a very satified customer of yours has if I recall correctly made statements on a post here that upon buying your packs one of the first things he did was add stiching in several spots including the chest strap so it could be reliable and depended upon.. Hardly my Idea of something someone should have to do to a guality pack before it even hits the field.

ALSO, I contacted Your customer service with each issue and was told everytime your more than welcome to return the product. I did and Sportsmans never once hesitated to replace and eventually refund me my money on the third pack.

By the way, I never received a responce of any kind from my e-mail. Thought that was strange? As in my e-mail I stated that I liked your "concept" so much that if you had any J105's in the basement I'd be willing to give it another run. Full well knowing I'd have to spend time and effort to beef it up.

Haven't even looked at the new and improved J105's(J107, etc) as I thought the J105 was my best chance at a bombproof pack. I'm one not into removable fannypacks, guick release shoulder harness buckles, etc. KISS is my way of thinking.

Now you want me to bow out? WTF? Dang, and here I've stated that I really like your concept, customer service, and you have a personal quality about you that makes you a stand up guy.

Sorry but for my money I want [bleep] that dose what it's supposed to. I am probably one of the few and apparantly the only guy on this planet that has three of your packs with duribility issues. Prolly the dumbest as most woulda called it quits on the second pack.

I would not want anyone that I know to go lay down $350 plus dollars on a pack system without being aware that #1 I'd add additional stiching to any strap with a buckle, that I'd either remove or beef up any guick release buckles assoiated with the shoulder harness, and that before they go on any extended trip where they are gonna have to bring back meat and cape that before they even leave for that trip that they need to order extension straps(buckles and all) for the compression straps that support the "concept" because the strapping provided is too short. I have a buddy in Spokane that had to purchase extension strapping and buckles on two J105's.

I'd also want anyone who buys one to be extreemly careful as to what kinda brush you walk through and that anytime you lay the pack down you'd better thourly look over the terrain because there is material on this pack(MY J105's) is NOT tough enough to handle what I've put every other pack I've owned through without a single glitch.

Lastly I don't give a [bleep] if the buckles you use are the same as many others pack builders. The fact is that I had a defective quick release buckle on a pack of "yours" on the shoulder harness that on my way outa the high country with prolly a 95Lb load would release on it's own in what I'd call an ALmost explosive manner that several times it threw me off ballance on a trail that one would NOT want to loose his balance on putting me down as once the buckle failed the load would shift with a quickness to the point of me doing what ever I could to not allow the stock on my rifle take a serious beating. And trying to protect myself from injury.

Now I'm not you but the guick release straps on that shoulder harness are a liability to anyone who uses your pack. Trust me I found out the hard way. If the industry standard buckles are not up to the task the last thing I'd do is put a questionable buckle on a shoulder harness on a pack I build and sell as quality.

And since were at it telling "it" like is your rain cover lacks durability. I and a pard purchased rain covers for our packs an the cover couldn't last a week much less days on any trip I make.

Again when I dump a bunch of money on a supposed to be guality pack thats what I expect. And so should anyone else.

Glen,

Your one of the finest gentlemen that has graced us here at the
Campfire. I applaud you coming here as it could be a minefield for you.

I was with Shag two out of the 3 times his J-105's came apart on him, that was 2006.
The first time we were only 3 days into a hunt. Shag did nothing
out of the ordinary with them.
They just simply came apart.

My own J104 had problems as well with heavy loads of 90 plus lbs. I took it back to Sportsmans and they gave me my money back. They said the pack was not built for that kind of weight.

You appear to be proactive and progressive with your packs.
We wish your business great success.

Bob

Glen, I damn near feel bad for my post. But, since you called me out, I like you put my feeling out there for all to see. I'm going to look through my sent e-mails and if I find my e-mail I'll sent it to you again. Giving you and your staff another chance to reply.

Again, I love the concept and think the gun scabbard on the J105', etc, is the best ever designed way to carry a rifle on any pack on the market.

Like I said everyone here can take or leave what I've said. But I'd not want a good budy like SU35, Mtn Hunter, 340boy, 222rem or any other that posts here to experience what I have with your packs. Without prior knowledge of my field tested concerns. That would just be cold.

I stated my peace and your more than welcome to reply with a PM if you like. I'll keep anything said between you and I to myself. And thats a promise.

Glen, from the bottom of my heart I really wish I could say different. But I can't. Can't tell you how excited I was about your pack. And how dissapointed I am that I can't use them.

I have only carried one of your packs on one mission, and it was because the guy who oned/ was supposed to carry it, could not/ wuld not. I found it adequate to the task at hand which was carrying about 30 lbs of equpiment a few clicks to an overwatch position. It was a halftrack. marketed to scout snipers. At any rate your making some pretty crazy and almost insulting assimptions about MY job, in your post, as well as some fairly in accurate stements about other peoples jobs, PM sent.

I'm not goiing back to quote it, but I'm sure you'll remember the part where you atted your were building the most complicated, or coplex packs ever designed? IS that a selling point or a warning? your famiiliar with the principal KISS right? Anyway, I'll not personally be switching brands, as I've been wearing Dana's packs since I was 14 or maybe 15. I've had some gregory packs along the way which I thougt well of as well. There are dudes floating around here in my comapny with Kifaru, and Eberlestock, and after trying all 3 guys who don't have an "aftermarket " pack already around here tend to buy MR.

Glen,
Thanks for the reply and I appreciate your candor. I wish you nothing but the best of luck and success in 2010. I wish I had the pack to send you, but as I stated in an earlier post, tempers can bring out the worst in us and it is no longer with me. Casey