Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Side-by-side shotguns ?

I probably cannot answer your questions specifically but have a two Beretta Silver Hawks, one a 470 in 12ga., a 471 in a 20 and a 28 AyA. The latter two are DT which I prefer but I have come to good terms with the first which is a ST but just always shoots where I'm looking (how can you not like that?). Actually, since I'm very normal size-wise (6'0", 200 lbs), most guns are stocked for guys like me and fit me from the git-go. Two other guns are semi-auto's but I invariably reach for the SxS when upland hunting.

Most Italian and Spanish-made doubles I've handled are very good quality SxS; JMO, but I'd "shoot a little higher" than the CZs.

I have a few and for upland hunting I have come to the conclusion that the English got it right about 100 years ago.

Saddlesore,

This does sum it up very well. To instinctively shoot a double it must be fit.

There have been a couple negative comments about the BSS and I would imagine they were made by persons who have never owned one and are quotes from "my buddied said" and "I read it in a magazine".

Light12 I certainly agree.

To each there own and I like my BSS very much.

I have owned three BSS boxlocks and they are remarkably stout shotguns.

My current primary upland gun is a CZ Ringneck 28/26. It feels light in my hands even at the end of the day. I foolishly sold my 16 ga Sterlingworth to pay for another rifle - like I needed another rifle. My turkey gun is a 16 gauge Stevens 5100. All the blue and case colors are still there. By the way, the inexpensive promotional game loads kill turkeys just as dead and kick a heckuvalot less than "express long range" shells.

-

I graduated to a Stevens 311 20 ga. after a H&R 410 (my dad who is not a hunter bought it for me) and after a H&R 16 ga. with which I shot my first bird.

I shot the Plain Jane 311 through college; I minored in pheasant hunting in IA during the days of Government Acres programs (now CRP) in the late 60's and early 70's and shot 85 one fall while my companion shot ~ 110 if memory serves-all legal too. That shotgun was no better to look at than a fence post but I took a lot of birds with it and developed my love for SxSs.

I remodeled the buttstock on mine to a straight grip (just because) and added a recoil pad. Killed a pile of birds with it, in the uplands from doves to sage grouse, and a bunch of ducks as well. Back then we could use lead, of course. Eileen even used it on turkeys, in fact there's a Stonywolf video from about 20 years ago that has me calling in and her whacking a Merriams with it.

It finally got slightly loose and I sold it to a guy whose wife getting into Cowboy Action shooting, for about what I'd paid for it 15 years before!

I've got a H&K (FabArms) Italian shotgun. It's an entry level SXS, as they say. It handles very well and is a good shotgun. Single select trigger, don't see the advantage of double triggers, but some do.

It got great reviews from an English shotgun site, I checked before I bought. I could do without the phoney side plates, also do without the pierced break lever.

About any 12 is kinda heavy. To me, the ideal double gun is 16 gauge so far as balance goes. If I found a good one, I might spring for it.

Well I'm another who likes SXS's. I now own two LC Smith's one in 12 GA and one in 16 GA , i own the Beretta 471 Silver Hawk in 20 GA , Bernadelli Premiere Gamecock in 12 GA, Charles Daly Miroku the same Jap company that makes the Browning in 12 GA and i own the CZ Ring-neck in 16 GA. The Ringneck CZ is a great shotgun for the money and handles in the field as good or better than more expensive SXS's, plus the CZ is built on a 16 GA frame instead of a 12 with smaller barrels. The Bernadelli Premiere is my favorite Grouse Gun for Mister Rough in the Mountains of Virginia and Tennessee. It is hard to beat a good SXS in the upland fields. I also have a number of O&U'S and love them along with my pumps and auto shotguns.

I agree with the fellows that think the SKB and Ugartechea side by sides are a lot of gun for the money. An ejector boxlock or plain ejector sidelock Ugartechea can often be bought right. A sleeper is the Victor Sarasqueta 6E to 10E models available on the used market.
dan

You know what all the SXS purists say:
"IF GOD WANTED YOU TO SHOOT AN O/U HE'D HAVE PLACED YOUR EYES THAT WAY"
My first SXS was a Steven 311 in 12 ga.next came a 311 in 16ga. they were great guns for the money. When I got serious about a nice SXS I happened upon a Parker VH 16ga. on an O frame. I got a really good deal on it because somewhere in it's 100 year history someone refinished the stock and added a recoil pad. I was looking for a great shooter and not a collector so I bought it.
I have to say it is one sweet shooting, easy to carry field gun. It was officially 100 years old last April.

I'm looking for another SXS in the future and would love another 16ga. I'm starting to look at the AYA's

There is a lot of good info here. I will add that getting into SxS doubles is a slippery slope - It usually turns out to be expensive but a fun ride.
I have owned and used all the doubles mentioned by Hammer except the RBL. I started out with a Tenite stocked Stevens 311, moved up (?) to a Win M-24 and LC Smith and eventualy a plethora of nice English and Contenental doubles.

I only have two now that I use, a WR drop-lock and a SKB 200 20 ga. - and the SKB gets the most use.

I bought a lovely little French guild gun last year off gunbroker for next to nothing, and it turns out to have LH cast, which is what I needed.

Nice thing about buying French guns is that they have only been fired once and then dropped.

It is my understanding that the SKB 20ga side by side was not imported into North America for many years, nor sold in high numbers. However, it has made the list above more often than its numbers would suggest I think.

I have one, and, like 458Win, it is the one I use most. It does not have the "cool factor" of a fine English, Italian or Spanish double, but it sure feels right to me!

Many who have shot it have tried to buy my SKB 20ga side by side from me (some for a ridiculous price), but I ain't selling!

John

J.B. have you found the same applies to the current "Spanish Best" that are essentially hand made in the the old world tradition of British Best.

However, today the British best are no longer made that way and incorporate modern manufacturing methods. i.e. cnc machines and less hand fitting.

As an aside when it comes to shotguns I see many mention the importance of shotgun fit. While it is important, for field use until you have the ability to consistently and correctly mount your shotgun close is good enough. You can't even be properly fitted for a shotgun until your mount is correct and consistent. The fitting of a field shotgun entails a movement from around your hips to chest that must be consistent to end in the exact same place along with being consistent in how you end at that place.

I've watched Andy Duffy pick up a New Ithaca Double that was off the shelf that certainly didn't "fit" him and after a few minutes start crushing 60yard crossing clays. Watched Gary Phillips do the same with his Krieghoff upside down. John Kruger took a borrowed 391 Beretta for kicks and just about ran a make-a-brake. George Digweed consistently breaking teal beyond 50yards from the hip.

I don't throw out these names to brag. I do know them all with the exception of Digweed, but I'm just using them as examples of what can be done with a shotgun that doesn't fit when the rest of you mechanics and experience are good.

Fit is important, but unless you have your mount down perfect it will not do you much good. Close will get the majority of us by.

I am apparently close enough to the size of the mythical "average man" that I can shoot shotguns with pretty much standard stock dimensions pretty well. I do like a little cast but don't have to have it--and I have shot enough (and have my mount down well enough) that after mounting any shotgun a few times can tell if I can shoot it well in the field. But some people do have special needs, as the current phrase goes.

Just one other note: Even though I prefer side-by-sides for bird hunting, the only time Phil Shoemaker (458Win) and I have hunted birds together we both carried pump-guns. Mine was an off-the-rack Remington 870 28-gauge, but Phil's was an engraved and custom-stocked Winchester Model 12 20-gauge....

My two "Spanish Best" Victor Sarasqueta sidelocks both have a third fastener and have stayed tight.
dan

Does anyone make a decent SxS with exposed hammers? I don't mean one of the cheap coach guns for cowboy action, but a real hunting shotgun.

Even a good vintage SxS can be a wonderful upland game bird. Mine is a Birmingham made Webley & Scott Screw Grip retailed by Manton of London. It was made somewhere between 1896 and 1904. It has 30" barrels choked 10 and 25 thou. I disconnected the manual safety and carry it open until the moment of truth. Even though it's a 12 bore it only weighs 6 lb 2 oz and is a lazer in my hands. These are my favorite pics from last years Alaskan hunt out on the Seward Penisnula on the last day after of hunting.



I roll crimp my own 2-1/2" loads with an old antique hand roll crimper.



I also own a 1969 Ugartechea 12 bore choked 4 and 8 thou. It's a solid pound heavier. Even though I haven't shot it in years, I can't bring myself to sell it has I've patterned over 100 different loads through it. Even with though chokes as open as they are I can get it to pattern over 70% via component manipulation.

Alan

Very nice gun. My W&S boxlock, made in 1949, has 30-inch barrels and weighs 6 pounds, 8 ounces, same as my favorite grouse gun, a 1915 HJ Hussey Imperial sidelock with 28-inch barrels.
All good stuff.