Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Sarah Palin is a FOX

By me defining homocide, brings the factual issue up to the surface. Using pretty words like pro choice, or it's opinion whether a fetus is human inside a humans womb is misleading. Once reality is understood, morality can be argued vigorously.

Kent

Yes but you are making the distinction that the egg and sperm together form life. Couldn't others make the argument that a sperm and egg separately are both forms of potential life?

So I argue that your definition of life is your opinion, the same as those who assert life becomes a child at a certain point of life, thus in their opinion homicide being the killing of a fertile egg as opposed to the killing of a child.

Bark - I need to confess up front that I'm not a 1 Big Tent kind of guy when it comes to religion. I'll not run down Catholocism but suffice to say they have a much different view than I on what it takes to get to heaven, and alot of other things rolled into their theology that aren't supported in the guidance document we both profess.

That being said, I'm also not painting with a large brush to say only X denomination is Christian. There are certain core beliefs in Christianity that are not "tweakable" - salvation by grace alone, trinity, bible is unerring word of God to name a few. Once we get past these topics, I'm open for debate and can accept what others believe. The bottom line is simple: if you consider yourself a Christian - root word Christ - then the bible is well... the bible. We can't add/subtract to it as we see fit. If some feel the need, come up with the Bible According to __________.

As to the concessions you mention, I do not know. I believe you are correct but I have issues with the Pope himself. I could accept that he is the leader of the Catholic church but can't quite swallow the whole infallibility nature of his words. I know alot of Catholics that I would consider Christian in the biblical sense of the word. Problem is they all seem to have issues with some of their Catholic tenents. I find that troublesome.

As to leaders of the "Church" I tend more towards evangelical people - David Jeremiah, John MacArthur, etc. I'm not aware of them changing positions or bible tenents to suit their needs. If so, please correct me.

I should have specified recent church leaders of the last hundred years.

I have always wondered if there really is a God, why would he have a problem with those who believe in Christian values, live by these values, but can't bring themselves to believe in God?

I would have thought God as described would understand and also appreciated that though an individual has a hard time believing, how he lives is more important than whether or not he can worship him.

I do hope you find faith.

You are talking life, a sperm has a life and potential it exists, what ever future it has will be. An egg has potential and it exists whatever future it has will be. Abortion can effect neither in their individual state.

Egg + sperm + fertilized = human in a human womb. No opinion, fact. The only way to divert the natural order of the fetus's future is with conscious abortion.

Kent

But birth control can be a tool of homicide of potential life.

I'm really not disagreeing with your point of view, literally you very well could be right. I just don't believe a fertile egg constitutes homicide in the real sense as we know homocide. Others disagree and I respect their opinion and can't say with certainty that I'm right and they are wrong.

The concept is a bit simpler - if a person truly believed the life you describe (the life he lives as God's words), why would you not worship the Creator of your life?

Because he believes the words to be good words to live by, but is skeptical of whose words they really are.

So could pulling out, kill potential that is.

It's no longer potential after a sperm fertilizes an egg, it's human. But I've said that. I believe in natural biological facts, false opinion not withstanding.

Kent

Whatever, at this point your opinions bothers me none, they have been drowned out by your delivery..

Fair enough - but at some level everyone needs to decide if they are the product of natural selection or divine intervention.

I mentioned my own story a few posts back. I'm a licensed geologist, hold BS, MS degrees and PhD coursework in geology (and hydrology) and for me, once all the evidence is out, there is too much random chance to explain evolution from a primordal stew. I know where I come from.

This is opinion. Do fertile eggs have a brain, a heart, or will these grow from a fertile egg?

LOL Barkoff who made you God?

At the time the egg is fertilized, obviously, a brain or heart has yet to develop. Though from that fertilized the proper mechanisms have begun for said organs to develop. So, to answer your question, at the very instance the egg is fertilized, no, they do not have a heart or brain.

I think what you seem to be alluding to is at what point does the egg become a fetus (correct me if I am wrong). To me that seems to be a somewhat tricky proposition, as some will argue that the moment the egg is fertilized it is human, while others will state that until certain organs have developed, it is not.

For crying out loud, you show up late and that's all you have to add to the debate, or did you even read the debate?

I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to come across as such. As krp stated, when the word taken literally homocide is "murder", as it means the killing of a human. However, the definition of what murder is defined by the law/morals/ethics of a given society. Pretty sure that Barkoff is simply asking questions so that he can fully comprehend the other poster's opinion.

I'll tell you what both Palin and other conservatives need, a good gop candidate to take her on as a vice presidential running mate.

Unless I am mistaken, the pill merely prevents the sperm from fertilizing the egg. Pretty much if the egg is the endzone and the sperm is the opposing offense, the BC pill is a defense that stops the offense 99.9x% of the time.