Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors A little odd 1899

Last May while visiting Boise,Idaho, I found an early Savage 1899 carbine in 303 cal. It has some strange parts on it that I believe may be left over 1895 parts. The serial number is 10871. The barrel is 20" and has standard schnoble forend. The butt stock is a checkered pistol grip style that has the standard Marlin "S" heel on the pistol grip, and butt plate is horn. The barrel also has the standard Marlin Carbine rear sight. The barrel has standard 1895 markings on it with only two patent dates on it,Feb 7 1893, July 25,1893. NO 99 patent date at all. Murry said it was a standard "short rifle", but his book says the short rifle came with a 22" barrel. In his book the only 20" barrel gun was the saddle ring carbine which mine is not a saddle ring gun. Mr. Callahan said my gun was just a carbine. He said it was shipped from the factory in June 5th 1899. I feel this gun is original as all parts show the same amount of wear. I ask him if Savage would use up the 1895 parts they recieved from Marlin, when Savage dropped the contract with them and started to produce the 1899. He said they would most likely use all the parts they received from Marlin. The really neat part about this gun is that with factory Winchester ammo with the 190 Silver tip, it groups 1 1/2 inch at 100 yards. What do you guys think of all this? Do I anything special? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You never know what will turn up. Never seen a horn PB.

Checkered butt stock and non-checkered forearm dosen't sound right. Are they both numbered to the rifle?

What is the distance between the rear sight dovetail slot and the receiver ring? If it is very short then you would have a carbine barrel vs. a cut rifle barrel.

Looking at the carbine ladder sight, are the numbers on the right or left side?

I think the schnobel forearm would be correct as I have yet to turn up either of the first two carbine styles as pictured in Murrary on an 1899.

Pictures?

Interesting that my Savage 1895 SRC #477X was actually shipped on June 29 1899 three weeks after your gun. The variation I have has the barrel band.
Mine was accepted on Dec 26, 1896. When was your carbine actually manufactured?
BillR

Callahan says in his letter that my carbine was "accepted from the factory to the warehouse on June 5, 1899". So I presume it was made in June, but don't know for sure. BillR, does your 1895 have a pistol grip stock on it? I would sure like to see an 1895 with a factory pistol grip stock, so I could compare mine with an 1895 to see if the stocks are the same. If anyone on the board has an 1895 with pistol grip stock, can you, would you please e-mail a picture of it to me. Thanks, Chip

Chip if you can email me a pic of your stock I'll post it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

p.m. coming with my e addy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Here are the pics, what do you guys think? Special order? They're not left over 1895 parts thats for sure, the forearm doesn't drop like an 1895 either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Chip,

Is the barrel marked "Savage Repeating Arms..." or "Savage Arms...".

From the rear sight dovetail location I would say it is a carbine barrel. The pistol grip butt doesn't seem correct for a 1899 production rifle as I don't think they were offered at that time. It might have been put on later. The pad on the side indicates an 1899 butt stock not an 1895 butt stock. I think the only 1895 parts might be the barrel (if it has "Repeating" in the address) and the forearm (too much shadow in the picture to be sure if it is an 1899 or 1895). Do all the numbers match? Is the front sight dovetailed in the barrel or not? I would like to see pictures of the front and rear sight.

These early rifles are very interesting. The log book info is not always complete since a lot of the details of the special/reworked rifles are not noted and job/work order number info has been lost.

It appears to be a nice rifle that warrents more study.

My carbine has the standard buttstock, straight with no checkering.
BillR

If this is the right pic, I think this is BillR's carbine! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

BTT

Chip, did you answer Ricks questions about 4 posts up? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Rick99, sorry I didn't get back with some answers sooner, Death in the family has put things on hold around here.
Barrel is marked as follows:
Savage Arms Co Utica NY USA
Patented Feb7 1893 July 25 1893 Cal 303
The front sight IS dovedtailed into the barrel. The forend is a 99 and is numbered to the gun. The butt stockis not numbered to the gun as was the case on the 1895 guns. From what I have read a pistol grip butt stock was an option from day one on the 99s. The barrel has one proof mark on it and it is a circle with an A in it. The bolt shows about a 1/4 inch of the forward round part similar to the 95 when bolt is closed, but it has the 99 modified cocked indicater on it. The rear sight is the carbine sight with the yardage numbers on the right ladder. Someone in the past cut the ladder off at the 500 yard marking? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> That I don't understand. The sling swivels are not original. I hope this answers all your questions and may give you guys some more to ponder on. Isn't it fun trying to figure what went on at the factory 105 years ago.

I have an 1895 SRC and an 1895 rifle and both have the matching serial number stamped on the buttstock and on the buttplate.
BillR

Lord, God...that is one beautiful rifle, mongrel or not. I have two "early" 1899's in 303, and both are good shooters with cast bullets (190 grainers at 1900 fps). One was made in 1899 (but was factory re-barrelled with a 1909 barrel) and the other is an all original 1907. Both are twins, model 1899 A's with crescent buttplates and 26 inch tubes.

How I love those 99's...


rooster

Chris,

Sorry to hear about the death. Hope all is getting back to normal.

Given the letter from JC, I don't think we will ever know the true history behind your rifle. The parts/work , best I can tell from the photo's, looks Savage. Your rifle is not an 1895 nor are the parts. Log say's a short rifle was shipped in 1899. I would GUESS that the rifle was returned to the factory for some changes. It has a carbine barrel (rear sight dovetail location is carbine, only).

The address on the barrel is not in Murray but I have seen it on atleast three other guns in the 1902-1907 period (there are at least two versions of this address). I call it a Style 1-A because the first line is the same wording as the Style 1 address. All the 1895's that I have seen have "Repeating" in the first line. Other than the ".303" marking in the address, is the barrel marked .303 ...probably on the left side below the rear sight?

The forearm is orginal to the rifle and would work with a Short Rifle or a Carbine barrel. I think the butt stock has been change either as an upgrade or because the other cracked. It's unusual to find a stock set that does not have both pieces checkered. Since the butt is not numbered and has a "Trade Mark" Indian head butt plate (correct?) I don't think it is original to the rifle.

This is just my read on what I see...could be wrong. Either way it is a nice rifle. There are a lot of 1899/99's that don't match the records and are hard to explain...even factory engraved that don't show the extra work.

Let me know on the above questions. I love these puzzle guns. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The sight on my 1895 Savage carbine is numbered on the right hand side when looking down the barrel. It is identical to the marlin carbine sight shown in Brophy's book on page 638 3rd sight from the top.
Billr

You are correct. See attached. Makes since that they would be. I'll correct my post. Thanks!

Rick99, the only caliber marking is in the address. None back on the barrel below the sight. The only markings on the barrel is the address line and the circle with an A in it proof mark on the bottom of the barrel under the forend. I found another number on the front of the receiver, a number 12. this is on the top right side of the of the magazine hole, and is covered by the wood forend. This mystry butt stock does not have the steel butt plate, instead it is horn and checkered. JC said this gun was listed as a carbine, not a short rifle. Murray's book said the short rifle had a 22 inch barrel. I can e-mail you the letter from JC if you want it.

1) no caliber marking would indicate a pre-30-30 caliber barrel, 1899-1900.
2) haven't seen a checkered horn butt plate (no other markings or designs?). Even the 1895 had a hardrubber plate with "Savage" markings as did the 1899's.
3) John and I looked through the log book and didn't see any carbines till September. Might have missed it. Sure which I had those logs to look at. Yes, I would like to see the letter from JC.

As I said, I don't think we will ever know the hole story on your rifle. Anyone else have any ideas or comments???

I remember where I saw the left side numbering, it's on the #11 Sporting Sight in the early catalogs. I've never seen the actual sight and don't know if they are real or just a drawing. I think this sight is made for the rifle and not a carbine. It looks like the sight used on the 1876 Winchester rifle except it is numbered on the left and does not show a screw in the dovetail event though the uper part is cut for the screw head. Anyone have or seen one???