Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Sarah Palin is a FOX

I wouldn't watch them neocons if I were you. You're liable to do something stupid, like smash the end of your finger off, while playing with your guns. LOL

I don't.

Government "rah rah" stuff doesn't interest me.

It did once,..but like Paul said, there comes a time to put away childish things.

Hey there Bob! Venturing onto the Campfire forum eh? Beware...grin....

I'll contest that "rights" come from a higher authority. Instead, I see them as being generally blatantly obvious. Any creature on the planet has every "right" we have; we have just codified them in ways beneficial to ourselves. But every creature has the basic right of self-determination, existance, expression, pursuit of happiness, being armed, etc. This is not something that God gave humans. It's just what... is.

So, by that logic, a deer has a right to not be murdered... at least as much as it can be said that a man has that right... but many of us, myself included, have decided that we are willing to violate that right.

As to abortion, it's ugly, and there's no denying it. I can see 100% how it can be such a deeply disturbing thing for people. If a person truly believes that every conception is an act of God, and that a human soul is bestowed upon that fertilized egg by that God at that moment, then it's flat murder and of course I can see how that person would be outraged.

But that's not a logically defensible position. It requires that we first grant the existance of a God and of a soul. I welcome a rigorous proof of these entities; that'd be cool. Failing that, I'll just say again that I do have a problem with accepting those positions as foundational to the debate, in the same way that I'd be leery of granting "God (or Allah, or the Great Pumpkin) thinks that XXXX is true" in any OTHER debate.

Lacking that, what we have before us is a question of simple biological determination. Two people have sex. Fluids mingle. Oops. It is decided that to bring a baby into the world is bad for whatever reasons. Those people choose to undo what they didn't mean to do in the first place. No harm, no foul.

What would be infinitly WORSE is for the above to happen, but for that woman to be compelled by the State to carry that baby to term, regardless of any other mitigating factor. NOW we are in the realm of something evil. Now we have a State in a position it should not be in.

The list of countries that don't allow abortion I posted is illustrative in that we share virtually NOTHING with any of them. Virtually none of them are countries that the average American, especially a conservative one, would see any kinship with other than this issue. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that for the State to regulate reproduction in this way is fundamentally un-American.

Remember that the anti's like to paint a picture of clueless 19-year0olds out having sex and getting pregnant and then using abortion like birth control. First... don't we WANT that? Why would we want those clueless 19 year olds to procreate? Second, there's a whole realm of people who confront this daily who are NOT like that. I posted before about a friend who was forced to deal with this in recent years. His wife was 45 years old and got pregnant accidentally. The complication rates, for both baby and mother, are astronomical at that age (just look what happened to Palin). On top of that, they had all the kids they wanted and their kids were teenages. They were done reproducing. She had an abortion. I cannot see the State telling that person they can't do that.

Talk about a nanny state...

Just thin on the good side, most of the replies are from guys horney for your neighbor.

Yep, Palin is a decent woman with good values, one willing to work in the field of politics and representation. She has climbed the ladder in a way I respect.

I'm not looking for the messiah. Just someone like our founding fathers that were willing to fight for, Their families, their friends, their cities, their states and their country. Roll up their sleeves and get to work.

We can be defeatist and gripe about no one being the perfect messiah, or we can rally around the best choice available. That person not only needs to have values close to our own but also have a viability in our rock star popularity based society. The libs have Obama, we have Palin. That's reality for right now until a new star appears.

RP, Huck, the mormon aren't popular, I would still pick Palin over them personally. I would vote for them if they had a better chance of defeating the libs. I'm not a defeatist.

Kent

Palin won't be a candidate.

Rupert Murdoch owns her now and that was part of the deal.

A well paid hen in the Fox house.

Jeff, I could stretch your chain of logic to say there is no such thing as murder in a moral sense and only homicide with no moral impications. Whether the mass of cells were 2 and a second old or 100 years old and millons of cells. History is full of examples of humans, dehumanizing others to justify them for genocide or slavery.

You basically say there is no natural moral conscious in humans, it is a taught trait and shouldn't exist. Anarchy.

Kent

agreed Kent, I'd take a Palin over a whole bushel of Obamas any day of the week.


there's some smart folks in DC, crooked but smart, my guess is the Dems actually hope the GOP regains seats this year.

that way they'll have at least some credible defense to share the blame over what's coming.

the GOP was diggin a hole with a shovel over the top of a huge cavern when they had control, the Dems have brought in a backhoe.

either way when we bust thru, it's gonna be a heck of a freefall for a bit.

my guess is whomever had his hand on the shovel last is gonna take a whoppin share of the blame.


but both sides been diggin the same direction for quite some time, just varying degrees of direction and speed, but still down.

I've changed my mind about RE, I'm gonna liquidate most of my property though it's not much. get rid of a house, a duplex and some raw land.

I can hardly believe what I see happening, but sure enough it's happening.

Maybe, I don't have a crystal ball, if she does run I'll support her.

Kent

I usually don't enter into the subject, but have listened to many. It seems the big question is when do you call it a person?

Some say the moment of conception? To me that's a stretch to think of that mess on the sheet as being a person.
It seems the better answer could be at what stage do you give an egg a name and a funeral? A full term still born would get a name and funeral if it were mine. But a natural miscarriage in the second month? I don't think so.

Miscarriages are quite tramatic emotionaly. Why should it be if we have no moral conscious. Ask any woman that has had a known miscarriage, they can count them, tell you when, and wonder in a sad thought about who they could have been. Even a man can wonder, who were you going to be in my life.

Kent

Yeah, I know have lived through the experience but didn't buy a tombstone or have a funeral.

Do you still have the mourning feeling and the wondering what if. Funerals are for the living, dying without other human recognition doesn't negate your humanity.

Kent

My sister had a miscarriage 4 years ago, her and especially her husband still hurt over that.

You never cease to amaze me, and don't try to put words into my mouth. I never said it was okay or not okay for abortions to take place, that is not for me to decide. I was merely trying to have a polite discussion about a clearly heated topic. Whether you believe it or not, you can alter certain opinions via the words you type on the internet. Maybe not always, though if someone takes the time to read a well thought out post, they may actually consider the points you make and down the road could possibly change their views. However, that concept seems to constantly escape you and you incessantly continue your cute little tirades. And I can assure you, I'm far from stupid.....

Carry on..

?

Oops, guess I missed a word there. Maybe I am from stupid in that case??

I just wonder if this is the way nemesis talks to people in person?

Dang Jeff you are going to start sounding like a Deist if you keep this right.

Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence never says our rights come from God. He says they are self-evident to all men and are endowed by a our Creator whoever that maybe.

So you are right.