Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 250-3000 Bullet debate in the 99

Just spent some caliper time with three .257 bullets. We have been told that the new Barnes TTSX 80 gr will not shoot in a 250-3000, but we all know that the Sierra 87 SP and 90 Hp will....Hmmmmmm

Bullet OAL Max Dia Bearing surface

87 SP .864 .256 .370
90 HP .891 .256 .335
80 TTSX 1.012 .256 .330

Bearing surface being that portion of the bullet that is at least .256. Note that both the 90 Sierra and 80 TTSX are boattails which reduce their bearing surface.

It is also accepted knowledge that the longer the bearing surface, the faster the twist.

I know from actual experience in my 1885 Browning Wyoming Centennial High Wall 25-06 with a 1 in 13 twist (yes really) that anything over a 90 gr SHP will keyhole at 200.

Also have found that the 130 TTSX (another "long for weight" bullet) is the most accurate in my 99 R and EG 300s, both 1 in 11.

So I am left to wonder why the 80 TTSX would not work fine in a 250 99?

oldman1942, if you have them, load them up and try them. I think it's been explained several times and you're just not getting it. But maybe you're right. Bring pics of the gun and target back though, please.

Bearing surface is NOT part of the equation ;

http://kwk.us/twist.html

OAL of the projectile is a key part of the equation.

Forget about bearing surface
Forget about bearing surface
Forget about bearing surface

Oh yeah , you can forget about bearing surface.


Mike

Thx Mike, I'd given up.

And velocity CAN make a slight difference. So just because a bullet works from a 25-06 or 257 Weatherby at a certain twist doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work at 250-3000 velocities.

They very possibly could. You never know until you try it in a specific gun with a specific charge, OAL, primer and so forth.

Guns are like people, some may be physically identical but have different personalities and preferences.

I always enjoy a constructive fact filled response.

Do you really think it's "maybe" why guys who shoot 168s in 308s have 1 in 12 and guys who shoot 208s use 1 in 10. Why the 6.5x55 designed around a LONG 160 gr bullet has a 1 in 9 or so twist?

Nothing has been explained except OPINION. I have yet to see any explanation that would pass Science 101 nor any target data. As for "getting it", with 50 years of reloading behind me, I think "I get it" pretty well and laws of ballistics don't change because somebody has an "opinion".

Since the 250-3000 made its name with a FB 87 gr SP cup and core that was no doubt even blunter than today's bullets, it stretches logic to believe a bullet that should work better in a fast twist will shoot worse.

Sad to say the powers that be, here is Key West, might frown on my putting a target out on the 16th hole and shooting off my porch, so my trials will have to wait until I return to Wyoming when the snow is melted out of my road.

Finally, I fail to see what bringing back pictures of the rifle and target will add to the discussion. I can send you 100s of pictures of 250-3000 99s and even more of targets I have on file shot with every 25 caliber from a Stevens Favorite to a 257 Weatherby.

If anyone has ACTUALLY put these bullets downrange from a 99 250-3000, then they might have some contribution to make otherwise you're wasting bandwidth.

Just to warm you up, here's a 250 group:

Here's a counterexample to the bearing surface idea.

Suppose we make a 150 grain .25" bullet. You can imagine how long it would be. Onto this bullet we fit a couple of driving bands so it will properly engage a typical 30 cal. barrel with .300" bore and .308" grooves. This is in the style of a 16" naval rifle projectile I saw while touring an old battleship.

For comparison we use a 150 grain .308" flat base Sierra just to pick one.

On our artillery style bullet we place the driving bands so they're closer together than the length of the bearing surface of the Sierra.

Now which do you think requires the tighter twist to stabilize?

I don't mean to bore anyone as we've all seen these before. Here's my rifle, my targets and my groups. They're all that matter to me. There's really no need for a bullet "debate". Pick what you can make shoot, and stick with it.
These are all .250 kills and all with the 87 grain "so called" varmit bullet!!!

Too complex for him.. Here's the rule, as given in a quote by Bob Spence and as specified in the Greenhill formula which he's been referred to several times. But apparently physics is just opinion to him.



Note that it's a very simple rule.. the longer the bullet, the faster the twist. Not intuitive, but true.

That 87 gr. Hornady lays them right out from what you've shown before.

The 87 grain bullet COMPLETELY change my thinking. That being said, the 100 grain Winchester is just about the same length ad the 87 grain Hornady and shoots just as well. I shoot the 87 because it makes me feel good. That's the bullet that started it all for the 250-300 and I don't care how much you guys get argued with,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,13 grain of bullet don't make a livin chit to the deer I have pictured. They are 87 grains dead, and that's that.

Yeah, but just think how "deader' they would be if you used the right bullet!

Umm.. LBK, we're not arguing that there's anything wrong with the 87gr bullet in this thread.

We're arguing at how well an 80gr Barnes TTSX bullet which is 15% longer than an 87gr bullet will stabilize in a 250-3000 (oldman's numbers used for length).

We can start another thread about 87gr varmint bullets as opposed to 87gr deer bullets if you want to, though.

Hey bonehead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think I mentioned the length thing. I agree the longer the bullet the faster the twist. You can't splain something to someone that won't listen!!!!!!!!!!!!!Better add a few more grins. If I used a 165 on a woodchuck it would be a varmit bullet. If I used a 55 grain bullet on a deer, it's a deer bullet!!!!

Rather then speculate, why not ask the people who make them?

The question asked:

Question about the 80 grain TTSX .257" bullet:

How long is this bullet?

Will it stabilize in a 1 in 14" rate of twist barrel?

Thinking mostly about how well this bullet will work in the 250-3000 Savage cartridge.

Jeff

*******

The question answered:

Hi Jeff,

The .257 cal 80gr TTSX is 1.013" and it will not stabilize in a 1 in 14 twist barrel. Sorry.

Best, Ty

We Aim to please, reloading is a great hobby, enjoy it.

Ty Herring
Barnes Bullets
Customer Service
P.O. Box 620 Mona, Ut. 84645

38 North Frontage Rd. Mona, Ut 84645
Tel 435-856-1000
Toll Free 1-800-574-9200
Fax 435-856-1040

tyhbarnesbullets.com
emailbarnesbullets.com
http://www.barnesbullets.com

And to think you used to live in New Hampshire!!!!

Thanks Jeff that takes all the fun out of an unnecessary argument! Don

Born and raised in NH and proud of it! Heck, might live there in the summer when my wife retires and the kids have finished college.

We're actually looking at a house in Campton with 10 acres. Plan to rent it to skiers in the winter and leaf peepers in the fall. Got a couple of college professors from Wellesley, MA, interested in an exclusive lease for the next 3 winter seasons, if we can make the numbers work. The house needs about $75K in rehab and the addition of a LaValley Pierce Arrow style garage.

Jeff

Jeff, Hey theres already 2 savage nuts in this town!!!!!!! let me know when your in town. Don

My $.02 is that I went to Barnes booth recently at the Dallas Safari Club Annual Convention. I spoke with Ty Herring and he told me the same thing as above. He also emailed me some suggested loadings for the Barnes 150grs. I bought from them for my 300 Savage. They seemed to be very helpful and knowledgeable. For my EG 250 as LBK, Calhoun and others suggested I will try the "varmit" 87gr. Speer Hot-Cor and Hornady SP for working up loads for deer/hogs here in Texas.