Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Shotgun slugs vs bears

I know this has been discussed before,but hear me out. This year, for bear defense while hiking,camping and bowhunting, I will be packing a 12.5" barrel 12 guage shotgun. I want to use slugs,not really impressed by buckshot so far. Also not very impressed by the penetration of Foster slugs, which is all I've ever used. The barrel is not rifled,though I suppose I couold find a rifled tube for it if it was worth while. Remeber,this gun is strictly for self defense against both black bear and grizzly and the range would likely be 10 yards or less. All I care about is penetration and damage. The problem I have is that here in Canada,it can be hard to find some of the more exotic stuff. Otherwise, I'd buy some of the Dixie slugs and look no further,as I've seen nothing to compare to them. I've seen Challenger,Lightfield,rarely some Brenneke's and of course all the cheap foster styles locally. There's a good selection of saboted stuff, but I don't know how they would perform out of a smoothbore,even at 10 yards. What would you chose in my situation?

Try one of the copper slugs. If you can hit with it from a smooth bore, you are golden.

Stay away from the light foster's slugs. I've seen a Brenneke break a hip and penetrate ~3 1/2' of deer. Can't really speak to the others

One word:

Brenneke

12.5" barrel..... with all the tough gun restrictions in Canada, and they let you use a short barrel like that?

Anyway, Copper solids, or the Hornady loads will be great.

+1

Even sideways from hitting brush, they will still penetrate.

I tried some sabot slugs labeled "for rifled barrels" the other day in a nonrifled barrel. They were certainly correct. They went through the target sideways at about 10 yards. Read the package carefully whatever type you try.

Are the Challenger slugs as good as the Brenneke's,as they are supposed to be a "brenneke style" slug? I know I can get them here, whereas the Brenneke's might be difficult to find. Also, I've heard some good things about the Federal Tru-Ball slug,does anyone have any experience with it, or have any idea how it might perform?

It's kind of surprising that we're allowed these short shotguns here, but as long as they come from the factory at over 26" they should be legal. Actually, there's an 8.5" barrelled one coming out this summer,but that's a bit too short for my comfort.

Shotguns IMO are the most over rated charge stopper/killer in the world!

A load of double 0 buck at 5 yards is deadly, and thats about it IMO..I just wonder how many, who have not been there before, can let a Bear or Lion get that close before pulling the trigger..

I'm not impressed with what I have seen! but be my guest..I'd opt for a carbine big bore rifle myself or perhaps a big bore pistol.

Years back, it was within my job description to dispatch more than a few base camp marauding pestiferous Black Bear in the remote river basins of the far Yukon.

Sometimes it was really not practical go get the 303, or the '06 and a shotgun was used. Double ought buck dittos, if that's the way you HAVE to go.

I found that slugs tended to ball up in the hair, and repeatedly had to EMPTY the 5 shot mag tube in the ubiquitous 870 "Camp Gun". I dunno if we had "Foster Slugs", or not.

One Black Bear actually died in my tent, head bonked with a .410 slug,........but the muzzle of that little Savage O&U was almost touching his brows.

I'm glad we were never troubled in those camps by big bears, I have had the opportunity to dismantle one big adult Grizzly, since,........and in studying the connective tissue and gristle therein, learned quite a bit.

Until you've done so you'll probably remain enchanted with the concept of shotgun slugs.

I'll be thanking my lucky stars i've never had to deal with an aggressive Grizzly with SBS, and no more than ANY damn slug!

GTC

Hello All
The Challenger is loaded with the Gualandi slug which features a plastic tail section comparable to a Brenneke. The ballistics look to be 1&1/8oz @1600fps but I don't know how hard the slug is made. Foster type slugs from Fed, Rem, and Win are very soft so they deform as they go through a chocked barrel. Brenneke slugs are harder but have wider spacing between the ribs to allow them to pass through a choke, this hardness allows them to penetrate an animal much better. With 90% of my deer hunting done with a slug gun I have tried many types of slugs and often found Foster slugs to not exit even on broadside deer. The only smoothbore slug gun I still own is a 870 w/19"IC rifle sighted barrel, at 50yds I can put all 5 3" Black Magic Magnums from Brenneke into 5" pretty darn fast. I don't know how well they would stop a bear charge, but do know that a frontal shot on a deer left a 3-4" exit hole in the back of the left rear ham after breaking the left hip. Theese slugs are 1&3/8oz and leave the muzzle of my 870 at 1438fps avg for 5 shots over a F-1 Chrony.
Hope this helps. Nelson

Seriously? A pistol over a shotgun?

That's a problem right there. If you don't know, you probably had Fosters. They are the cheapest and most common slugs. Hollow Fosters are in no way comparable to the solid Brenneke slugs.


I've never seen any commercially loaded slugs other than Fosters in the .410.

I understand those Gualandi's are suitable for dinosaur.

How many Grizzly bears have you dismantled?

I have but the one, very humble encounter to fall back on.

I know QUITE a bit more about the soft target a "Deer" represents.

Tell me you've knocked down a fair number of Horribilus, and I'm all ears.

But I will comment that cutting up a truck tire's got nothing on butchering a grizzly.

GTC

There's a town in middle Georgia where they have a grizzled butcher. He's worked over a buncha hogs, some from me. All passed into the afterlife with buckshot from a petite 20 ga pump.

Having shot a fair array of stuff with Forster slugs, I'll say they aren't real impressive on penetration, but certainly do make a satisfying sound when they hit most anything. Nice crisp "WHOP!". Most times it's followed by an immediate 'thud', but still, hogs ain't bears and that's a fact. Wouldn't want to face a big bear with Forster slugs from anything less than maybe a 4 bore. OTOH, I wouldn't be taking a single step in reverse if loaded with buckshot, and yes, I can wait until they're close. You're not going to have time to wet your pants in the time they move from 50 yards to 5-10 yards anyway. Only thing required in learnin' how to use buck is go out and pattern the gun. Then remember what happened later on.

12.5" barrel huh? Might not pattern fer chitt(ok), so maybe..I dunno, put choke tubes in it? (I would, but I'd not be using such a short barrel either) Geesh....wait 'til they're within 3 yards?

You know that 12 bore round balls penetrate pretty well, right?

Looked over the Dixie Slugs website and noticed they have both a 3" and 3 1/2" 12 ga load with three .60 cal balls. Pattern within inches of each other at 50 yds.

Was referring to a 12 BORE ball, as in ~.729", and about 580 grains. I dunno what a .60 caliber ball will do in 12 bore, I do know what a bore caliber ball will do...hardened up a bit and they'll penetrate like crazy...and leave a wound channel Helen Keller could find. If you hand load you could do something with this, otherwise, I've mostly covered my thoughts.

I'd love to shoot the Dixie stuff, unfortunately it's not available in Canada.
I don't get hung up on whats doing the shooting,much more interested about what comes out and how fast. A 600 gr bullet, of .60+ calibre, at 1500 fps sounds like bear medicine to me. Almost anyone would agree, till you tell them your shooting it out of a shotgun,at which point it becomes anemic and weak. I think the many years of nothing but dead soft Foster slugs has got most people convinced all slugs are equal,and therefore unsuitable. As I stated originally, I don't like Foster slugs for this application and will not use them or buckshot on bears.
Hopefully I can find a few suitable types of slugs this spring and do some penetration testing. I'm curious to see how the 12.5 inch barrel affects velocity,accuracy and penetration.

I'm a bit curious on the 12.5" barrel myself.