Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only M70 Classic Safari Express v. Classic Super Express

What, if any, are the fundamental differences between the two?

Your best bet is to "Google" the Mod. 70 and read up on it. For the most part it is divided into the push feed and controlled round feed rifles,the pre-64 and post 64 rifles and the pre World War 11 rifles. The pre-64 rifles probably had better barrels as a rule and the post 64 series is said to have straighter actions due to the heat treating process. The pre-64 rifles had a one piece bolt handle and the post 64 rifles vents escaping gases better. The new FN Mod. 70's look like good rifles. Sadly they replaced what may have been the best and most rugged and reliable hunting trigger ever put on a rifle. With that trigger and the bolt which can be field stripped with out tools you have a rifle that could fall in the mud and be washed off in a creek. To the purist the pre 64 Mod. 70 is the Holy Grail. There are some other things on the "Classic" series such as magazine springs and extractors that I like replacing with spring steel ones. A small book can be written on Mod. 70's. I like them and have both pre and post 64 Mod. 70 rifles. They are known as the "Riflemen's Rifle" for a reason.

Ak1, thanks for the info. I'm aware of the pre vs post-64 differences in general, but was looking more specifically for the differences between the post-64 Classics - both of which are 'big bores' and somewhat 'fallbacks' to the pre-64, in that at they are CRF versions.

The Super had a monte carlo stock, the Safari had a classic straight stock.

The Super had a fairly crappy, IMO, fold down rear sight, the Safari had a decent, from what I remember express rear.

The Super had a barrel "lug" front swivel, the Safari had a barrel band.

Seems the Super usually had a little better wood than the Safari, but had a darker finish.

Super had a Supergrade style rear swivel, I think the Safari had a standard swivel post.

Super had a hard rubber Win. red pad, the Safari had a black Decelerator, big plus.

I have a Super, which has been modified extensively. Mine is a 375. I'd like to have a Safari in 458, punched out to Lott. I don't think they ever made the Super in 416, but could be wrong. The Super was made in pushfeed actions before the birth of the Classic action.

I think that pretty well covers it. Either is a great rifle. I'd prefer a Safari, but I bought mine for a song. They're a bit heavy, especially for a 375, but handle nicely. The stock is nice and slim, but not overly so. Seems maybe the Safari stock had a large butt area that might help spread recoil a little better, but not sure on that.

Hope that helps,

David Walker

Whichever one you choose have it worked over very carefully for 110% feeding, no excuses...that is the only diffence you need on a DG rifle if you intend to hunt DG with it..either will be fine if you do this otherwise neither will do.

I would like more specifics on the recommended improvements for the Safari.

Extractor replaced, polished the front for single feed. Replaced glue bedding. Honed trigger. What else?

What about the 2 piece bolt, pin, silver soldier or TIG? Replacement Magazine Box Spring, who makes these? Is it worth hollowing out the forend for lighter weight and better balance?
Anything else? I am considering an oil finish redo as I have probably already negated any collectors value.

Tejano,

Full length bedding, tank to forend is what I like, with a relief at the tang to help prevent splitting. Didn't do anything to my bolt. Trigger is at a crisp 3.25 lbs. I ended up putting a Remington Mag. length magazine spring in mine, it took a little mod. to fit the floorplate, in order to hold 4 down in 375. The factory spring had a "kink" in it that made it only hold 3. But I haven't played with that enough yet to say it's "proven". That's really about all I'd do. I replaced sights etc..., but mostly for aesthetics.

DW

Tejano,

For the most part, the Safari Express is a pretty good rifle out of the box IMO. However, the point Ray was making (I think) is that for DG hunting, you want that thing 100% reliable as far as feeding, extraction, operation, etc. goes. That means shooting it enough in real world hunting conditions to make sure you don't have any issues. You've replaced the extractor and polished the feed ramp, bedded it and have the trigger set. Now you just have to make sure that it operates every time, which means you must shoot it extensively.

As far as the bolt goes, there are some people who believe welding the bolt handle is necessary and then there are others who see this as needless. From what I've seen described over the years, bolt separation on Post 64 rifles is very uncommon, but not unheard of. So if you're a belt and suspenders kind of guy, go ahead. I personally have never worried about it and never had a problem. I think our resident M70 gunsmithing expert, Redneck, has said previously that he doesn't think this is necessary. Brian Pierce, writer for Wolfe Publishing, has said he thinks it ought to be done based on him experiencing this problem.

Other things to consider is to make sure the tang is bedded properly since the Safari can develop cracks in this area after extensive firing from a large cartridge. The Safaris I have seen and inspected, including my two, have had the cross-bolts fitted very well but you might check to make sure those are good and not loose. If you think you might be using the open sights, then you might think about those and consider whether the factory ones meet your requirements. That is the one aspect of the Safaris that I think are lacking, to some degree. My .375 H&H is fitted with a peep that installs on the scope base dovetail and it works well with the original bead front. I'm not sure what cartridge your rifle is chambered in, but I wouldn't mess with hollowing the forend out since I think the Safaris are about the right weight and balance to start with. However, if it doesn't balance right for you or feels awkward, then by all means, do something about it to make it fit well so you can be on target instantly without any thought or fiddling around.

I hope this helps.
Test

Thanks for the very good advice.

Instead of tweaking the rifle I need to be out shooting it. Mine is a 375 H&H and a bit much for hogs but I will ring it out on whatever opportunities are available.

I figure the best way to hone an action is to cart it around in a dusty/sandy environment in an open air vehicle and then shoot a couple of hundred rounds through it for function testing. This will be a pleasure and a good way to bide my time until I can go back to Africa.

Thanks again.

It was John Wayne who said, "Never trust a man who won't trust his own belt".

Henry Fonda-Once upon a time in the West- "Never trust a man who wears suspenders and a belt. The man can't even trust his own pants." 1968

If you think it needs it....do it.

Kirk Douglas....Ace in the Hole..." I've done a lot of lying in my time. I've lied to men who wear belts. I've lied to men who wear suspenders. But I'd never be so stupid as to lie to a man who wears both belt and suspenders."

Belt and suspenders it is on the bolt handle.

I guess TIG would be the ultimate but are there other options?

Just curious if anyone makes a one piece aftermarket bolt?

Mines a Lefty so probably not, but would be useful for cartridge conversions as well.

I think the Post 64s for a long time had the bolt handle on a spline and then moved onto being pressed onto a knurled surface.

D'Arcy Echols pins the bolts somehow, and also solders too I believe. Maybe check on the web.

Cheers, Chris

The bolt on an Echols rifle has a .093" hardened steel dowel pin fitted and soldered through the bolt handle ring and bolt body thus locking the two together. The post-64 M-70 handles can and have come off, mostly due to improper brazing or poor fit from Winchester.

Brian

Thanks Brian. Most disconcerting to have the bolt come apart I'd imagine.

Chris

New poster

I have a super classic express in 458 win. mag with a synthetic stock, looking to restock with wood. Will the super classic express work in a safari express stock. I can find safari express stocks but not super classic express stocks. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Whippoorwill,
I would tend to think they would since I don't think Winchester changed the actions at all. If they did, it would be very slight. If I were you, I would buy one and check it out. If it is too different to be worth the hassle of fitting, you could always resell the stock. However, I'd bet it would work without any issues at all. I would imagine that your rifle has a barrel mounted recoil lug, right? Same for the Safari Express rifles. The only thing I can even think of that might be different between these two models might be the location of this lug and you could probably modify the stock to fit if that was the case. Also, does the classic express have a barrel mounted sling stud? The Safari Express rifles do. Therefore, if your rifle doesn't have one, you'll be minus a front sling stud with the Safari Express stock so would have to fit one to the barrel or put one in the new stock.

Welcome to the fire, by the way.
Test