Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Shotgun slugs vs bears

Go with the Challenger, if it shoots in your 12 you'll be fine... and the bear won't!!!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Supposedly the game officers who killed the 2 griz that ate Timothy Treadway used 12ga slugs. But they emptied both guns, as I recall.

You REAL sure about the ballistics you just called out ?

....outta' a 12 ga.,....... 12" barrel ?

I'd TEST them a whole lot, .....before I went to making that claim.

If it's on the level,...big medicine indeed.

GTC

Uh, the ORIGINAL Brenekke is still available in 410 stateside, its the other gauges that are not, at least not in the Original config..

I know jack on bears, but I have shot many deer with Fosters, Brennekes and some sabots. The fosters go splat, penetrate less, but up very close that much lead, even soft lead can be sheer hell.

The biggest thing the large lead slugs lack is stability, in the muzzle, in flight and especially in meat. Up close they are hammers, but shed all ballistic power as range factors in.

The Brenneke with hardened alloy is a monster inside 50 yards on deer; will zing through both shoulders or come close to lengthwise. When range is slightly extended, nada. Past 75 yards you are sometimes only breaking one shoulder, on a DEER.

Someone said a handgun rather than a slug: dude, modern sabot slugs in rifled tubes are essentially 45/70's with jacketed bullets, albiet very short, Hollow Pointed ones with low SD.
These don't always exit deer either and are oft apt to tumble.

BRI made a hardened hourglass sabot for LE for breaking concrete UP CLOSE.

Again, no REAL bear input, just some slug input.

I'm not sure what velocities will be out of a 12.5 inch barrel,but I'n sure I'll lose a fair bit. Still, at rock chuckin distance I think it'll be enough. Lightfield slugs were also brought to my attention as some real snot-flingin stompers,so I'll see if I can track some of them down for testing as well. I have a feedlot next door that usually has some good size steers die and go to the dead pile,so when it warms up maybe I'll head over there and try busting some shoulders.

I was wondering about the short barrel as well.

I'm at work - no access to regs here. But I THINK a barrel has to be longer than 16 inches in Canada to be legal.

I know I'm in a minority here - but I'd rather use bear spray - than what you are thinking about.

For a manufactured manually operated rifle or shotgun (not semi auto) the barrel can be pretty close to anything and be legal, as long as the entire firearm is still 66 cm. However, you can't modify (cut down) a barrel less than about 18"

These 8.5" barrel shotguns are manufactured by Dlask Arms and are completely legal, however I believe they need ot have the full stock on them to be considered "unrestricted" and meet the 66cm rule for use off a range.





As for slugs, the Brennekes kick arse over Foster slugs. Challenger slugs I have not used, but heard good stuff about them and their design looks good.Buckshot is useless for your purposes except at pretty much point blank range.

I wouldn't worry about velocity loss from a 12.5" barrel over say an 18" barrel...You aren't going ot be shooting past 50 yards at a charging bear, and more likely it will be 25-30 yards

All legal in Canada_

[img]http://pics.livejournal.com/fearsclave/pic/001cd406[/img]





[img]http://www.canadaammo.com/images/D/IMG_0126.JPG?1264714076303[/img]

Ironbender,
Yes, seriously a pistol over a shotgun, at least that way I can pump 6 into him while he's eating on me!

I would like to know how many of you shotgunners have stopped a charging bear with a shotgun! I don't doubt that it can be done, but it will never be by me as I am going to have a carbine 416 Rem or something in the way Win. Mod 71 in 450 Alaskan if I am in big bear country, where such a thing can take place. If I am fishing then a 44 mag. 6 inch loaded with hot 250 gr. hard cast Keith simi wadcutters and I will shoot at point blank range for the brain..

I love a shotgun for quail!

+1 on the big-bore carbine.

This being Canada,we can have short barrel shotguns without restriction, but cannot carry pistols. If I could I'd pack a revolver in .454 or similar, simply because it's handier to carry. If I had to pick one or the other to face down a charging bear, I'd go with the shotgun. I'd prefer an auto to prevent short stroking and for faster follow ups but the pump should work. I am trying to figure out what to use for penetration and damage testing, and then I'll test the shotgun against my .444,.375 and 356 lever actions. From the testing I've seen others do I expect that with the proper slugs the shotgun will rule the day.

I would think that any of the lever guns loaded with hard cast would rule the day, myself.

I've only used slugs on deer and would vote Brennekke.

I have. It was a DLP kill.

I've done three DLPs in the last 8 years. Two were done with a shotgun loaded with Brennekes and one was done with a .375. The Brennekes passed through like a hardcast bullet and the bears just flopped out on the ground and died.

The other two guys in the department probably have a couple kills apiece all with Brennekes.

I have had to go crawling around in the alder bushes several times for bears, and never once have I ever doubted my abilities or the gun.

Thanks for the reply Steve, it's always good to get some reassurance from someone who been there/done that.
I still plan to do the testing, just for curiosity sake and to see what the differences will be.

This was the small DLP bear which stopped this slug:



at 2:00 AM earlier that day, not very impressive for a 20" 870 at 30 yards IMV. No major bones were damaged on the broadside shoulder shot.

(The bear loped off $___ing himself, but he never lost his feet from the shot.) He was dispatched by a couple of 300 grain bullets from a 45 Colt; they penetrated completely.




This bear was stopped instantly by a 350 grain NorthFork bullet from a 45-70. The distance was 246 yards measured. The bullet penetrated completely including the far shoulder.

There was an author from BC that did quite a few tests, and wrote a detailed book on bear encounters and defence. As with all defence, a shotgun is deamed preferable when loaded with buck, as it gives the most inexperienced shooter a high probability of a hit. This same author had set up a tire or a 5 gallon bucket on a cable and realeasd it so it moved toward the shooter at 50 yards the same speed a bear would charge. The shooter was to hit the bucket several times with the shotgun. Most folks that did not shoot much could not do it. The shotgun was an 870 simular to a police model, with ghost rings, and an extended magazine, loaded with buck and slug, buck and slug. The recoil from this was more than most could handle as well. He also claimed, through tests, that the common 12ga slug was not suitable for stopping a charging bear, as it did not penetrate far enough. Even a moderate round was found to penetrate better than the big slug. Handguns here are illegal to carry, but there are those who can receive a special permit to carry while working. There are others who carry, and forgo the permit. There is a don't ask, don't tell policy the farther north one goes. This still leaves the problem of what to carry for bear defence. The best answer I can offer is something than can, and should, be shot to resonable accuracy by all parties. It should be added that in many defence cases the object is not to kill the bear, but just to get it to go away. This is unfortuate to some, as it does leave a mess for others to clean up, but at the same time, may save the party from a toothy/clawy attack.

R.

Had a beer with him once,....

.....he's from Alberta.

Steve Herrero.

Link: http://www.ucalgary.ca/evds/herrero

I think thats the guy. Well done. Its been a long time since I read any of his stuff. I did come across this as well.

Good info from the US Forest Service


R.

A common 170 grain bullet in a 30-30 out-penetrates 00 and 000 buckshot in the tests I've done. I do not use buck at all. A hit means nothing except if it is meaningful. Other than that is almost certain to be detrimental.





In Alaska, the laws specifically state that one should shoot to kill when things finally come down to shooting bears. Deterrents in the form of noise makers, flash-reports, and non-lethal projectiles are okay, but shooting lethal projectiles at a bear are expected to be used only to kill the bear. They don't want the problem of issues later.