Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Remington 700 CDL SF in .30-06

True dat!

A one MOA rifle used to be a miracle, now anythiing off the rack will do that with judicious handloads...

And, as you pointed out, so will alot of the old ones....now....



Ingwe

I like old rifles.....

Full-length bedding does work, as does a forend screw like that on the pre-'64 Model 70. But PRECISE full-length bedding is really impossible on mass-produced rifles with walnut stocks, both due to machining problems and the fact that most factory walnut isn't cured long enough to be really stable. The last problem has been solved somewhat by modern stock finishes, which are much more water-resistant than the oil-based finishes on older factory rifles, but it's still there.

This is why the pre-'64 used a forend screw, and many factory rifles (especially those that originated decades ago, like the 700) still employ forend pressure points. It's a way to stabilize the barrel and still have the relatively close barrel inletting that used to be an indicator of quality, especially to older gun writers.

The big problem with such inletting, however, is variation in stock wood. A forend tip-hump will vary in how much upward pressure it produces, because each walnut blank varies in strength. It will probably also warp somewhat eventually, even the warping is only "relaxing" slightly, changing the dynamics of the forend pressure. I have even seen factory synthetic stocks with tip-humps that lose their spring after some shooting.

These days more and more factories are free-floating barrels, both in walnut and synthetic stocks. Quite often those rifles are getting the reputation of being very accurate right out of the box. Savage, Sako, Browning A-Bolts and X-Bolts--all come from the factory with free-floated barrels. So does the T/C Icon, a more recent rifle that's getting the reputation of find OTB accuracy.

Col Towsend Whelen was a firm advocate of glass bedding the back ONLY of the recoil lug and the back 1" of the barrel, the rest free floated. I have used that method for decades and it has never failed to work. My latest effort was a 270 Marlin XL that was a 1.5" out of the box, that now shoots bugholes after the Whelen treatment.

When I think of full length bedding--rightly or wrongly, I think of the zero pressure bedding used by NULA. I've talked to Melvin at great length about this and he believes its as much a means to provide stable and consistent support to the barrel.

Otherwise, I sort of think in terms of pressure points. About the only gun I've ever had that shot well with a pressure point (and I know this is an apples to oranges comparison) was a Ruger 1S in .45-70 and then I used one of the little EA Brown gizmo's. It required a fair amount of pressure to make it shoot correctly.

As for the pre 64's, I've had guys say they could tune the load by then tension on the barrel screw. Sort of like the original BOSS system, I guess.

Snowed a bunch overnight, so I may see if I can't dig out ol' Elmer's quote.

MD: Agreed, good post....Got a 7 mag and a 257 Roberts over here;plus a couple of pre 64 FW's in 270 that are all bedded full length;all are nicely accurate.The Roberts and 7 mag are "old style" O'Connor/Keith type customs with tight inletting.

But with synthetic stocks, I float em' all even light barrels like #1 contour kriegers shoot great.SC M70's in 270 and 300WSM with floated barrels rae simply very accurate as well.

Found the Elmer Keith discussion sooner than I would have thought. I know he's written about this in some of his other works, but this is close enough for the discussion at hand. This is from the September 1980 edition of Gun Notes under the heading "Walking Rifles". Walking in this case means point of impact change. Anyway, the salient quote follows:

"Free-floating barrels, however, are to my notion a sad mistake and are an excuse for poor wood and poor workmanship. Stock blanks that have not been perfectly cured can also warp and put pressure on one side or the other of a barrel and cause walking rifles. Perfectly tight-fitted forestocks with an upward pressure of seven to eleven pounds at the tip usually five the best performance. If the wood is the finer-grained, well-seasoned variety, it will not change."

Elmer also thought that the future of long-range target shooting (such as the 1000-yard Wimbledon match) lay in .338 caliber cartridges.

I first became familiar with Melvin's method of full-length bedding of barrels aboit 20 years ago, when he sent me a .300 Winchester Magnum for a year or so. It shot very well, as have all the NULA's I've fooled with since, and I've even bedded the barrels of rifles in synthetic and walnut stocks the same way.

But in general I've found that most synthetic stocks aren't as stiff as Melvin's, and one of the reasons his rifles shoot so well is the stock stiffness--and the bedding ALL the way out to the tip of the forend. Often that inch or so at the end had to be retouched, or even given a little tip-pressure, in other synthetic stocks, because they tend to "relax" after some shooting. The technique also works pretty well in laminated stocks.

In standard walnut stocks the bedding often has to be touched up from time to time, due to shifting of the wood, even with the forend channel completely epoxy-bedded and a very water-resistant finish on the rest of the stock. Free-floating usually solves that problem.

That's one reason I think most folks with walnut stocks tend to only bed the chamber portion of the barrel. At least that's what I do. I started to do this after reading a treatise by Harlan Carter (? too lazy to go dig that one out too) on how to glass bed. I've followed his instructions ever since and I've yet to be disappointed.

As for Elmer, he was from a different time. Some of his observations I think still hold true today, others, either technology or history have made irrelevant. If he had some of the bullets and powder we have today, it makes me wonder if he and JOC might have at least agreed on caliber.

As an aside, in this same 1980 Gun Notes article, he accuses Ruger of using bad barrels on #1's. He said that he and Ross Seyfried had tried a bit of everything, including using rubber washers to take up the forend pressure, and thus, the conclusion that it was bad barrels.

Actually, I don't bother bedding any of the barrel except on 98 Mausers. The reason for bedding the rear of the barrel with 98's is that the front sction screw is in the center of the recoil lug, so when it's tightened it tends to bend the action slightly unless the rear of the barrel is bedded as well. Partly this is because a 98 action isn't all that stiff, especially a military 98 with the thumb cut-out.

Wuth just about every other bolt action the front action screw is behind the recoil lug, so they work fine without bedding any of the barrel. In fact the most accurate factory rifle I've ever owned is a Remington 700 with a varmint-weight, 26" .223 barrel, and it's totally free-floated.

Well, that certainly makes sense. I'm trying to talk myself out of glass bedding this CDL anyway. Considering that it will be used in dry weather and the wood-to-metal fit on the lug and action front are just about perfect, I'm not sure I'll want to fool with it. But then again, I can never seem to leave well enough alone

If it's shooting well, I wouldn't bother!

Exactly. I've been shooting a 700 CDL for the past five seasons, with five mule deer down. Only thing I did to it was adjust the trigger, load a mess of ammo and take it hunting for mulies & coyotes.

Why bother messing with it if it's shooting well?

I probably won't mess with it. The trigger out of the box is 3.5lbs and crisp. And, since I rasped out the pressure point, its a legitimate MOA rifle with 165 gr NBT's and Speer SPBT's and 1.25 with 180 gr Hornady's. And that's with a single powder charge. Hard to tell what will happen once I really play with it. Anyway, I'm certain if Dad does his part, it will kill game if I didn't do anything but load what I've shot in it so far.

As much as I love old Elmer (I even publish his best book), he could be a bit erratic (like claiming Jack O'Connor tried to shoot him) and things have advanced a bit since he went to the big range up yonder.

hey all, not to hijack the thread, but since it has turned to bedding, i have a question. i have a pre-64 mod. 70 in 30.06. i have no plans on it being a collector piece as it is a standard model. mule deer alluded to the fact that pre-64's shoot pretty good with the foreend screw installed. i have heard from others that the first thing you should do is to remove the screw. i am considering freefloating and glass-bedding the action. any thoughts on which way you would go? the rifle is a strong 1 1/4 MOA shooter as is, which doesn't bother me. my concern is the older wood and possible temp changes when hunting in various elements. -keith

I do not own a pre 64, but I've shot a few and have helped several guys who do own one. YMMV. Anyway, here's how I do it.

Use the barrel screw tension, in 1/4 turn increments, to adjust to your loads. Leave the action screw, barrel screw and tang screw loose. Tighten the action screw and tang screw until they are just barely, but evenly snug. Bounce the butt of the gun to seat the lug. Tighten the action screw until it is really snug, then tighten the tang screw until it stops without any real force. Tighten the action screw until it stops with some effort. Take the tang screw up until it just barely stops. Place your fingers on the intersection of forend and barrel and take the action screw up again until you feel any movement, then stop. Now, take the barrel screw up until it barely stops. Use the barrel screw to tune your load in. I'd suggest 1/4 turns one way or the other until you feel any movement in the forend/barrel interface. Remember, the action screw will act as a "hump" to the barrel if you tighten the barrel screw too much.

A stupid question...... I have a CDL in 7-08 and it shoots like a champ with the pressure point so far. Any worries that it will change its' habits. Should I take out the pressure point as preventive medicine or go by " if it aint broke don't fix it"?

" If it aint broke"...


Ive only had to remove the pressure point from one Remingon thus far...the rest worked well out of the box....

Ingwe

If you don't plan on using it on a high dollar hunt where its terminally wet, then, like ingwe, I wouldn't bother. Unless, you just like to tinker. Nothing wrong with tinkering.