|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,387 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 28,387 Likes: 1 |
Comment on a discussion in the Hunter's Campfire got me to thinking.
What all powerful factory or wildcats can/are being chambered in the 336 or 1895? The .307, .356, .308 ME and .338 ME for sure look good, the .45/70 and .444 by themselves can be potent in these levers. The .348 Winchester has been wildcatted to all kinds of stuff in 1886 and 71 actions but those don't fit in the Marlin.
I've not kept up with them but it seems like the .45/70 and .444 have the capacity to be necked down to some fairly powerful rounds. Anybody mind remembering me what some of them are?
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,407
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,407 |
Have a look at my post in Big bore lever; 1895 reliability, you'll see a 336 XLR custom in 50AK. My friend has done 6 like that in 18 months, lot of works but they are working flawlessly so must be possible do make a 416-348 or 375-348 that will do well.
Dom
PS mine is on an original 71 easier to prepare and with longer cartridge oal.
Experience is a lantern, carried in our back, only lightening already walked path. (Confucius)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 617
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 617 |
Jim, It may be possible that the 309,338,& 375 JDJ cartridges based on the 444 could be chambered in the Marlin given proper bullets, and over all length. I suspect the loaded length of those cartridges may be a problem. Would they be an improvment on the newer Marlin cartridges is a big maybe. Wildcats on either 444 or 45-70 case smaller than 30 suffer from a lack of bullets suitable to levers. I would probably opt for the 338 Marlin necked up to 375 if I felt like it offered any improvement over the 338. Actually haven't seen a lot of wildcats on the 45-70 case and suspect it has always been overshadowed by the 348.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
New Member
|
|
New Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1 |
I've designed a wildcat which I chambered in a Marlin 336 (and a few TC Contenders). It moves a 200 grain bullet at 2400 fps safely, with room to improve but I'm happy right where it's at. I also load other bullets in it, like a 250 grain Barnes Original, a 195 grain MZ bullet, and cast bullets, among others. It's a true .40 caliber round, 2" long case, and has killed numerous deer from 55 yards to 220 yards, with a variety of bullets and complete penetration. Maybe it doesn't fit the "powerful" category but it works nicely. Think of it as exactly between a .375 Winchester round and a .444 Marlin round. - 400PF
No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness in aiming the first shot. -Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
Don't you ever wonder why Marlin discontinued the .307, the .356 and the .375 Winchester or the 480 Ruger and 475 Linebaugh before selling one? The Marlin 336/'95 action will not take a steady diet of them.There having problems with the .308 ME now.The Winchester actions are stronger than the Marlin.Atleast Winchester made a Big Bore version with a slightly beefed up reciever..I wish Marlin would also but why...They sell everything they make now. The 510 Kodiak Express!!!!!The 5,000 Ft pound Marlin.  http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_11_54/ai_n28573718/Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,002
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,002 |
Guns don't kill people, it's mostly the bullets
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074 |
The Marlin 336/'95 action will not take a steady diet of them.There having problems with the .308 ME now.
Jayco
Where are we reading this about the 308MX having problems???
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,864
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,864 |
The Marlin 336/'95 action will not take a steady diet of them.There having problems with the .308 ME now.
Jayco
Where are we reading this about the 308MX having problems??? Good question! And those calibers named were discontinued be cause of lack of sales, not because they fell apart.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
The Marlin action will "Not" handle as much pressure as the Winchester '94 and that is a fact.There were test for a Levergun to be made into the 454 Casull and the Marlin failed first in less than 20 rounds of factory equivalent 454 Casull rounds with the Winchester taking nearly 40... Rather than quote..Here is a link to the Marlin .308 and it's problems it is having, pressure wise, from people from Marlin and other very knowledgeable people. http://www.levergunlovers.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=10934 Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074 |
The Marlin action will "Not" handle as much pressure as the Winchester '94 and that is a fact.There were test for a Levergun to be made into the 454 Casull and the Marlin failed first in less than 20 rounds of factory equivalent 454 Casull rounds with the Winchester taking nearly 40... Rather than quote..Here is a link to the Marlin .308 and it's problems it is having, pressure wise, from people from Marlin and other very knowledgeable people. http://www.levergunlovers.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=10934 If the 94 failed after 40 then it really doesn't matter as it failed also.......just took a lttle more! Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
___
........are you stupid or just uninformed??? You ever want to talk about it civilly,let me no. Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 44
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 44 |
here is a link to the MO thread that references this thread and a discussion by owners of those rifles.
http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/index.php/topic,59719.0.html
and I think the stupid / uninformed is a signature line Jayco...dont think they are talking to you personally.
Nothin Clever Here
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,407
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,407 |
I've one Marlin 336ER in 356 Winchester,using factory cartridges or handloaded ones (Speer number13 book datas) i have no problem, but for sure these loads are far from their maximum of 52000psi.
I'm sure, that, as most US experts demonstrated, the Marlin 336/95 is weaker than 94BB or modern era 86, even if it's enough gun for all the game we hunt in Europe or America. Why bother to push them above their limits, if we need more power just use a BLR.
Experience is a lantern, carried in our back, only lightening already walked path. (Confucius)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074 |
___
........are you stupid or just uninformed??? You ever want to talk about it civilly,let me no. Jayco You ever hear of a Signature line? Well that is what that is. It is in no way directed solely at you!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,297
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,297 |
The Marlin 336/'95 action will not take a steady diet of them.There having problems with the .308 ME now.
Jayco
Where are we reading this about the 308MX having problems??? Good question! And those calibers named were discontinued be cause of lack of sales, not because they fell apart. Still on Marlins web site.Federal now sales ammo for them.I dont believe they are discontinued.Make that Remington instead of federal.
Last edited by jdm953; 02/17/10. Reason: mistake
Ideas are far more powerful than guns, We dont let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas. "Joseph Stalin"
He who has braved youths dizzy heat dreads not the frost of age.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,349
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,349 |
I've one converted to 356 / 358 Win and it is a thumper.
I am the NorthEast WoodsBeast!
"System version 1.3, divorced"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074 |
I see the fact that the 94 can handle more pressure as moot. I like my Marlins and they handle things fine.
Never liked the '94!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
I blew that one and apologize for having a short fuse.My son just got out of the hospital after 11 days in ICU and I should not have been on the net with a bad attitude..
Now,Marlin advertised the 480/475 Linebaugh just recently and they built a few butttt..The 480 Ruger has a SAAMI of 48,000 and the Linebaugh 50,000 and the action will not take a steady diet of that pressure so even though several company's advertised the new Marlin,they never got them and they are history just like the 307 Winchester that never made it out of Marlin plant.
Winchester beefed up there '94 to handle up to 52,000 CUP which would handle the .307 Winchester,calling the action the Big Bore..
Marlin on the other hand supposedly beefed up the 336 action calling it the 1895 action, which is far from the strength of the Winchester BB.Every time Marlin and Hornady come up with these new calibers that they think will handle just a little more pressure,they have problems..
Hey..I own three Marlins in 45-70 and with the right components,I can get some real velocities if I chose to do so but my to go load is a 425 grain cast at 1850 fps out of my Guide Gun at a pressure checked...Below 35,000 PSI.My rifle will last a long time.
Sorry again for the outburst.
Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,074 |
Marlin on the other hand supposedly beefed up the 336 action calling it the 1895 action, which is far from the strength of the Winchester BB.Every time Marlin and Hornady come up with these new calibers that they think will handle just a little more pressure,they have problems..
What problems and where is there proof?
Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
Your awful predigest to the Marlin without knowing the background. John Taffin wrote: Someone at Winchester came up with the idea of modernizing the ancient Winchester Model 94 on the inside, while keeping the basic configuration on the outside. By beefing up the Model 94, the grand old design would be able to accommodate pressures in the range of 37,000 to 52,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure). That puts it in the same range as .308 and .30-'06 bolt actions. A Model 94 chambered in .308? Now that should be a winner!
Three new cartridges would be introduced. The rimmed version of the .308 Win. became the .307 Winchester, the .358 Winchester's rimmed counterpart was the .356 Winchester, while the 100 year-old .38-55 was modernized into the .375 Winchester.
The .375 Winchester came first in 1978 in the then new Model 94 Big Bore. Meanwhile Winchester became USRAC, and in 1983 the Model 94 Big Bore became the Model 94 XTR Angle Eject. This signaled an interior change that would cause the spent cartridge cases to be ejected at an angle to the right instead of straight up -- facilitating the use of a scope. The other two new chamberings, the .307 and .356 Winchester, would be introduced with the Angle Eject Model.
Marlin also jumped on the bandwagon, but not for long. The .375 Winchester would be produced from 1980 to 1983 with a total of 16,315 Model .375s being offered with 20- inch barrels. Marlin announced the .307, but it's generally Left believed they never let any out of the plant, while the .356 Winchester was found in the Marlin 336ER (Extra Range). The latter is relatively rare with only 2,441 manufactured for. the three years of 1983 through 1986.
Marlin got out very quickly, while Winchester/USRAC tried to hold on to all three chamberings for a while longer. Regardless, they did not make it into the 1990s. The .375 Big Bore Model 94 was dropped in 1988. Jayco
|
|
|
|
|
558 members (24HourCampFireGuy50, 1936M71, 160user, 1minute, 222Sako, 1Longbow, 62 invisible),
2,439
guests, and
1,446
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,170
Posts18,484,590
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
