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It's weird.
We've got wolves here - always have had them. Lots of them. Lots of game too. We also have farmers, domestic animals and all the rest also. Up here - they all co-exist.
But the minute they get south of the 49th parallel - it's as if they turned into vampires or werewolves or something. They transform into these wicked demon-like creatures that destroy nature, kill all the game animals, destroy hunting opportunities and put farmers and ranchers out of work.
It must be something in the DNA.
North of the 49th parallel - they act like just one more cog in nature's tool-box - but south of it - they transform into the wicked beast of myth, fable and nightmares.
Weird how that transformation works....
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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In canada they have been allowed to grow and adapt with the environment and the environment with the wolves. This has happened in certain locales in the lower 48 as well. But introducing wolves has been an ecological disaster in most of the West. They aren't allowed to managed, hunted and controlled.
Dropping off wolves into a area rich with game is like giving the town drunk the keys to the bar.
I was not a advocate of reintroduction of wolves due to no plan to limit their numbers and we still don't!
ddj
Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau
The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back. - Robert Ruark
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It's weird.
We've got wolves here - always have had them. Lots of them. Lots of game too. We also have farmers, domestic animals and all the rest also. Up here - they all co-exist.
But the minute they get south of the 49th parallel - it's as if they turned into vampires or werewolves or something. They transform into these wicked demon-like creatures that destroy nature, kill all the game animals, destroy hunting opportunities and put farmers and ranchers out of work.
It must be something in the DNA.
North of the 49th parallel - they act like just one more cog in nature's tool-box - but south of it - they transform into the wicked beast of myth, fable and nightmares.
Weird how that transformation works.... Kinda was thinking the same thing Brian. I've killed quite a few of them but never hated any one of them. Even let some walk away.........
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Well until recently, no one in the lower 48 could legally do anything but let them walk away. That could be at least part of the reason for the differences you and Brian are seeing.
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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the Canadian situation is hardly comparable to that of the lower 48 . We don't don't have hundreds of miles of deep wilderness and big game habitat.....
our game animals subsist on islands of habitat in the midst of a sea of humans.......
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It's weird.
We've got wolves here - always have had them. Lots of them. Lots of game too. We also have farmers, domestic animals and all the rest also. Up here - they all co-exist.
But the minute they get south of the 49th parallel - it's as if they turned into vampires or werewolves or something. They transform into these wicked demon-like creatures that destroy nature, kill all the game animals, destroy hunting opportunities and put farmers and ranchers out of work.
It must be something in the DNA.
North of the 49th parallel - they act like just one more cog in nature's tool-box - but south of it - they transform into the wicked beast of myth, fable and nightmares.
Weird how that transformation works.... Here's the deal. Let's use Utah as an example. Arguably the best trophy elk hunting in the world. Extremely limited opportunity for the nonresident hunter. Only 1-4 nonresident tags in the best units. You let the "Yellowstone" wolves continue their migration south and what do you think that is going to do those precious few nonresident tags? Exactly.
Proud NRA Life Member
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It's weird.
We've got wolves here - always have had them. Lots of them. Lots of game too. We also have farmers, domestic animals and all the rest also. Up here - they all co-exist.
But the minute they get south of the 49th parallel - it's as if they turned into vampires or werewolves or something. They transform into these wicked demon-like creatures that destroy nature, kill all the game animals, destroy hunting opportunities and put farmers and ranchers out of work.
It must be something in the DNA.
North of the 49th parallel - they act like just one more cog in nature's tool-box - but south of it - they transform into the wicked beast of myth, fable and nightmares.
Weird how that transformation works.... Here's the deal. Let's use Utah as an example. Arguably the best trophy elk hunting in the world. Extremely limited opportunity for the nonresident hunter. Only 1-4 nonresident tags in the best units. You let the "Yellowstone" wolves continue their migration south and what do you think that is going to do those precious few nonresident tags? Exactly. Well lets see..............Utah elk have few people hunting them (very limited tags) and no 4 legged preditors either, sounds like a high fence without the fence. We have become use to elk scoring 400 plus behind every other tree which was never normal in the real world. Before fencing, winter feeding and eliminating the competion (wolves) Check the facts.............there were only a handfull of them untill 20 years ago when Hollywood game management became the norm. Kinda when silicone became all the rage with the girls.
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In canada they have been allowed to grow and adapt with the environment and the environment with the wolves. This has happened in certain locales in the lower 48 as well. But introducing wolves has been an ecological disaster in most of the West. They aren't allowed to managed, hunted and controlled.
Idaho, and Montana each had a general season. Idaho's is on going. Add that to the fact that the states are aggressive on wolves that get into trouble and it makes your post irrelevant. It what was the disaster was the reaction of some of the depts to the extra mouth to feed. The Livestock industry in Montana is more to blame than the wolf for our low elk numbers.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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the Canadian situation is hardly comparable to that of the lower 48 . We don't don't have hundreds of miles of deep wilderness and big game habitat.....
our game animals subsist on islands of habitat in the midst of a sea of humans....... That's not true, in Montana and Idaho we have the habitat. That's why the WS put them here after many years of comments. There's more wild land mass areas here than in much of BC and Alberta.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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the Canadian situation is hardly comparable to that of the lower 48 . We don't don't have hundreds of miles of deep wilderness and big game habitat.....
our game animals subsist on islands of habitat in the midst of a sea of humans....... That's not true, in Montana and Idaho we have the habitat. That's why the WS put them here after many years of comments. There's more wild land mass areas here than in much of BC and Alberta. I'd call bull on that . You might have habitat where wolves can survive alright , and Montana and Idaho might be fairly wild by lower 48 standards alright , but still not comparable to BC or Alberta . Elk habitat is really limted to parts of the national forest in lower 48 for the most part , with the winter ranges particularly limited . Take a look at a map of BC sometime , and then realize there is no place in the lower 48 farther than 20 miles from a road .
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the Canadian situation is hardly comparable to that of the lower 48 . We don't don't have hundreds of miles of deep wilderness and big game habitat.....
our game animals subsist on islands of habitat in the midst of a sea of humans....... That's not true, in Montana and Idaho we have the habitat. That's why the WS put them here after many years of comments. There's more wild land mass areas here than in much of BC and Alberta. I'd call bull on that . You might have habitat where wolves can survive alright , and Montana and Idaho might be fairly wild by lower 48 standards alright , but still not comparable to BC or Alberta . Elk habitat is really limted to parts of the national forest in lower 48 for the most part , with the winter ranges particularly limited . Take a look at a map of BC sometime , and then realize there is no place in the lower 48 farther than 20 miles from a road . You have the right to call bull on anything, doesn't mean your right. I live in Western Montana, and 6 miles to my west roads stop, and don't start for another 50 air miles. North they run for over 300 miles North and south with only a few roads cutting through the wilderness. The Bob is about the same size as Yellowstone park, without roads. Like I said in my post in the lower half of each Provence there's not many areas that are that wild. Go to google earth and let me know what you find. Wolves have been in these habitats forever. Elk habitat isn't defined strictly by National Forests. Lots of great winter range is on private property.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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Montana does have a fair amount of wilderness but it in no way compares with British Columbia or Alberta. Just drive to Muncho Lake once and you will see....or just look at a map.
ddj
Many men go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. - Henry David Thoreau
The best part of hunting and fishing was the thinking about going and the talking about it after you got back. - Robert Ruark
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DPole - After seeing the destruction from wolves and game populations decreasing, I am unmoved. We need to allow hunting of wolves just as we do coyotes. They are a predator not a game animal.
If we as hunters have an unified voice, hopefully we can continue to limit and decrease their populations.
ddj I don't think most of us support wolf management. SSS does qualify.
The Mayans had it right. If you�re going to predict the future, it�s best to aim far beyond your life expectancy, lest you wind up red-faced in a bunker overstocked with Spam and ammo.
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Elk habitat isn't defined strictly by National Forests. Lots of great winter range is on private property.
yep , which means the winter range is particularly limiting ; and also not suitable for wolf colonization . I'd like to see this place in the lower 48 where wilderness runs 300 miles solid..... the Selway -Bitteroot and the Frank Church go maybe 120 miles north to south , and they are not all that wide east to west as the crow flies....
Last edited by sdgunslinger; 02/11/10.
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check this out.http://saveelk.com/index.html
Last edited by Codave101; 02/11/10.
If you are not America first you are america last. Be loud and proud America first.
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Hey Slinger...maybe you should check your facts...the Frank Church/Selway Bitterroot combined is just shy of 5 million acres (thats including the Gospel Hump Wilderness). The only road seperating the Frank and 'Root is the Magruder Corridor. You may want to check a map sometime, its more than a pretty good clip "east to west",...been there done that...and I dont care how your crow flies. For your viewing pleasure...a few places I've been to in the Frank/'Root...mean chunk of real-estate...not to mention vast. ![[Linked Image]](http://photos.imageevent.com/buzzandpat/frankchurch/websize/173.JPG) ![[Linked Image]](http://photos.imageevent.com/buzzandpat/frankchurch/websize/IMG_2590.JPG) ![[Linked Image]](http://photos.imageevent.com/buzzandpat/frankchurch/websize/IMG_2972.JPG) ![[Linked Image]](http://photos.imageevent.com/buzzandpat/frankchurch/websize/IMG_2963.JPG)
Last edited by BuzzH; 02/11/10.
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I'd pay to see a dang wolf eat a dang liberal...a lot.
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yeah Buzz , I've heard Idaho has some mean real estate , and I don't doubt it's a good "clip" to traverse the Selway or Church by foot or horse.....
but for the record , how many air miles do those places average east to west ; MAYBE 30- 40 miles ? yeah , I did check a map....
5 million acres is about 7800 square miles , which is a chunk of ground not quite 90 by 90 miles . A good little chunk , but not much when you look at the whole of Idaho , Montana , or compare it to BC .
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I think its a tad farther than 30-40 miles...throwing out the Magruder road. Hamilton Montana to McCall Idaho...dont really know the East-West mileage on that.
Its a long hike.
Just about killed a horse in there this year...he rolled twice in about the only place he could without being bear-bait...quite the wreck. Found out on the way out, the local FS packer has found a dozen or so dead horses on that section of trail over the years.
Last edited by BuzzH; 02/11/10.
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I'd like to see this place in the lower 48 where wilderness runs 300 miles solid.....
I never said 300 miles solid. I said 300 miles with only a hand full of roads. Now looky on your map start at the cabinets wilderness on the Idaho/Montana border, then scroll south to Boise, tell me how far that is, and how many roads you cross from A to B. You've got 4 major wilderness area's in that region and lots of acres that aren't in wilderness but could be. Just saying!
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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