Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Single Action or Double?

I'm going to get my first hunting revolver in a few months and am trying to decide what to get. I'm still mulling over .44 / .45LC / .454. However, I was wondering what the advantages or drawbacks of the various actions are. I'd never shoot a double action revolver in double action mode unless I had too. A single action looks harder to clean. Any suggestions?

The single action guns, such as the Rugers, are simple, and easily cleaned. You just remove the clylinder, and go to it. The double action guns, like the Smith & Wesson, have, or can be made to have, really nice triggers. To me, a clean, creepless break, is the No. 1 feature I look for in a revolver. It does more to enhance your shooting than anything else. The double action feature, to my mind, is simply for very short range defensive use. Single action guns tend to be somewhat less prone to breakage. But, neither of them are anywhere near as rugged as a good, large frame auto loader. E

Double action is of no importance hunting-wise unless you're in an area where dangerous game may be present. I had been a lifelong double action aficionado, but found that a single action was more comfortable for me to shoot. I have very small hands and my Freedom Arms .45 Colt fits my hand very well. The N frame S&W was a little tough in heavy recoiling guns, the Ruger Redhawk was better, but quite heavy.

I think that a SA is much less punishing to shoot than a DA in heavy calibers. The reason for that is in the way your hand/wrist align with the barrel. The grip on a SA revolver places your hand well below the line of the barrel, so recoil tends to flip the muzzle upwards more, while DA revolvers tend to recoil more straight back into your hands. S&W revolvers have very nice triggers straight out of the box. If you get a Ruger, plan on having the trigger fixed, but that's cheap. I bought a SBH, had the trigger fixed, freebored it, tighted the cylinder and recrowned it for what a S&W would have cost. A SA is not any harder to clean. Maybe easier. You just slide the pin forward and remove the cylinder.<P>-al

I'm going to keep this kind of simple.<P>Judging by the tone and questions of your posts, I believe that you do not have a lot of experience with large caliber handguns.<P>That said, I would highly recommend that you purchase either a Ruger SBH or a Ruger Bisley with adjustable sights in either .44 mag or .45 LC for your first gun. In either one, you will have ample power on the upper end for deer, etc and you can shoot cowboy action type loads in the .45 LC or .44 specials in the .44 mag. If you are a reloader, I would lean toward the .45 LC, it can do anything a .454 can do with the proper loads.<P>Most people who shoot heavy loads in revolvers, agree that the Ruger Bisley has the best design ever developed to handle heavy recoil. John Linebaugh among them. The downside to that, which is minimal, is that the Bisley with adj. sights currently only comes in a 7 1/2 inch barrel. Which is a bit long for comfortable carry IMO. But it is not hard to have a Gunsmith whack it down to 6 inches or so. You will need a trigger job. If you are half way handy, you can install one of the spring kits in about 5 minutes, which will usually make it into an acceptable trigger. A gunsmith does better, but costs more and takes time.<P>If you are inexperienced, I urge you to NOT go out and shoot full house Mag type loads in either of these guns, when you first purchase it. Get some of the less powerful loads mentioned above, shoot it a bit, find out that is does not bite, and then go up from there.<P>BTW, traitorous actions on the company's part aside, a S&W 29 is a truly fine handgun, but it will not stand up to the extended shooting of heavy recoiling rounds that a Ruger will. And, for that matter, cannot handle the pressures safely that a Ruger will. It, to a large extent, depends on how much you really plan to shoot/hunt with it. If a few hundred rounds or less a year is what you are considering, then you can often find used Smith 29's these days at very good prices. Good Luck and be careful.<p>[This message has been edited by If It Flies It Dies (edited May 02, 2001).]

Thanks Y'all,<BR>Well it sounds like a single action is the way to go. I've about decided on a Ruger in .45 LC. Of course, I'll get one with adjustable sights. <P>I plan on reloading for it. 45LC should be fine for deer. If I get some good cast bullets, I imagine it will do well on our bears as well. They get pretty thick around here, so penetration is key.<P>I haven't ever shot a single action, though. My experience to "big" revolvers is limited to a snub nose .357 Colt Python. I didn't find it unmanagable. It's just not a legal hunting sidearm (have to have 5.5" in NC).<P>I'll probably shoot this gun a whole lot at first and then just a few hundred rounds a year.<P>Any thoughts on the Blackhawk Convertable?<P>Thanks,<BR>QD

Just a couple of points. If you want .454 ballistics, buy one. Ruger does make good, strong guns. But trying to make the .45 Long Colt equal, or exceed, the .44 Magnum is a big mistake. They are not designed for these pressure levels. Smith & Wesson guns are plenty strong enough for any reasonable job. If you insist on getting powder happy, you may well join the many who found out the hard way that no revolver is anything like as strong as our modern rifles. The .44 Magnum is loaded to the limits of our technology. If you attempt to exceed these limits, your asking for real problems. Second, revolver weight, and barrel lenth, go a long way toward taming the recoil of the .44-.454 class of handgun. Personally, I find a 8 3/8 inch S&W more comfortable to shoot than the 7.5 inch Super Blackhawk. I suggest you buy the heaviest, longest wheelgun you can hold steady. Buy something that will easily give you the ballistics you need. You can always load it down. Good luck, E.

E.,<P>We agree more than we disagree, but, in this case you are wrong. I could bore you to death with loads, but it is easy to load the .45 LC up to .454 levels and maintain safe pressures in Rugers, Freedom Arms, etc that were designed to handle them. As I have mentioned in other threads, I don't normally shoot them, I can do everything I need in a pistol with 250-300 grain bullets at 1000-1100fps and don't have to contend with the extra level of recoil. If I know I am going deer hunting with one, I will step up a little.<P>Second, the .44 Mag in factory loads is NOT loaded to the limits of modern technology, it is loaded specifically with the limits of S&W pistols in mind. There are numerous loads listed for TC's, Marlins, Winchesters, and other modern single actions that exceed the recommended pressure level for Smiths. As I said above, I am not knocking a Smith, but facts are facts.<P>Finally, I am not going to argue about what you feel, and I have several 29's--all pre- sell out--but, to me, when you shoot even hot factory loads in them, they have more perceived recoil than the same loads in Rugers. This observation is not just mine, it is very common among shooters of both guns, and is a direct result of the grip design/angle of the guns. But, the recoil in a 29 is controlable, since even hot .44 mag loads are not anywhere near as heavy as hot .45 loads.<P>You are absolutely correct when you state that gun weight does help reduce recoil levels, but, I have always maintained that a pistol was designed to be carried not hauled and that is why I don't really consider the TC, as accurate and as much as they have killed, to be a real carry hunting pistol. If recoil is really a problem, then the Super RedHawk, weighs a good bit more than the SBH, or 29, and is reported to be very accurate. It is just too big for me to want to tote around. Good shooting.

My main point was that if you need .454 ballistics, buy one. I say this because I've seen several Ruger .45 Colts, and plenty of .44 Mags, break down from extra heavy loads over the years. I know one guy that lost a chunk of finger when his Ruger let go. It's hard to tell where you are when you start "improving" on the ballistics of a given load in a revolver by handloading. And, I too, believe that a good 250 gr. bullet at 1100-1200 fps. will do just about anything one needs to do. Anyway, have fun guys. E.

The Blackhawk or Bisley would be fine. They also are a fine platform for a Linebaugh or Bowen conversion. Choose whichever grip design is most comfortable to you. They'll handle any "reasonable" load (300 @ 1250) for a long time without coming apart. Stay within the loading manual guidelines, load H110 or WW296 for the really heavy loads and you'll be fine (I can't say the same about your wrists!). There are not many problems that a 255 @ 1000, or a 300 @ 1200 won't solve. Buffalo Bore loads some hot ones for the Ruger, but loading your own is the best medicine.

If you want max hp for minimal investment in a SA, get a ruger 45 colt bisley, then send it to Phillops and Rodgers for one of their 5 shot cylinders, and have an oversize locking basepin fit. You'll be looking at ~$400 for the gun, and $250-300 for the conversion. This may not quite be a 454, but there isn't a critter that'll tell the difference.

I like my Ruger Blackhawk in 41 mag.I'm shooting 210 gr noslers at 1500 fps and recoil is no worse than my S&W 357 double action.{Like CAT was saying}

The Ruger .454 Super Redhawk will also shoot .45LC. It is printed on the cylinder. I like it a lot. <P>As for reloading, do not go over or under the loads in the reloading manuals. Stay within the specs.

The Ruger .454 Super Redhawk will also shoot .45LC. It is printed on the cylinder. I like it a lot. <P>As for reloading, do not go over or under the loads in the reloading manuals. Stay within the specs.

guys i gotta jump in here, i been shooting hot .45 colt loads for 20 years in my old Blackhawk, (22 gr. of 2400/260gr JHP) and the old hawk is as tight as ever, anything, and i repeat anything the .44 mag will do, the hot loaded Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt will also do, with less pressure, these are facts look them up... gut

I shoot both .454 Casull handguns and a Ruger Vaquero Bisley in .45 LC. I enjoy carrying and shooting both, but my favorite carry gun has become the Ruger, loaded with 260 gr. FP bullets, driven by 22 gr. of 2400. This load produces around 1200 fps from the Ruger, and will handle about anything that walks here in North America. This load hits very close to point of aim at 25 yards with its fixed sights. Ross Seyfried reported favorably on this gun/load combo several years ago in Guns and Ammo mag.

Both types of guns are not any easier to clean then the other. Although the other advantages have been listed.<P>It is a wives tell that DA is not as accurate as SA. There are many people out there that shot better using DA than SA. In fact, if a person paractices DA shooting, ALOT, then it is about 50-50 as to which is better. <P>The thing to do, if you have any doubts, is set up a target at 50-75 yards and try both methods, to see which is best for you. For me, I shoot DA better, and 16 years ago (when I graduated the academy) I shot SA better.

Here is a very good link on the .45 Colt vs. .44 Magnum issue.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/dissolving.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/dissolving.htm</A> <P>This and Ross Seyfried's article in a recent Handloader magazine have led me to hang up my .44's for good. And this is saying something as I have been shooting a .44 Magnum since 1973.<P>In my humble and not so enlightened opinion, either one will serve well as a hunting gun. But what I like about the .45 is that less pressure means less muzzle blast. I can load a .452 300 grainer to below the speed of sound and cut out a lot of the piercing blast that way as well. Of course you can do that in a .44 as well. When Elmer approached Remington about building the .44 Magnum, all he wanted was a "super" .44 Special with a 255 grain bullet at 1250 fps. He already knew that was enough to drive through a big game animal.<P>Now to be fair to the .44 Magnum, it is still a premier hunting cartridge. It definitely beats the .45 Colt hands down in the availability of good high peformance factory loads as well as general availability of high peformance bullets for reloading.<P>Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer pick. Shoot either chambering straight and they will both do the job.<P>Finally, my own recommendation is to get the Ruger Bisley or a Ruger Super Blackhawk with the 7 1/2" barrel, or the new Super Blackhawk Hunter model with the heavier barrel and round trigger guard. Stay away from Super Blackhawks with 5 1/2" barrels. Those smaller .44 Maggies will beat the **** out of your hands. What hurts is the square corner where the grip frame screws into the cylinder frame. Even after filing mine to a rounded profile it still attacks the web of your hand. The Bisley eliminates this corner entirely and the 7 1/2" SBH has a bigger, longer grip which allows more room for the gun to move before your hand contacts this point. The longer barrel provides increased inertia against the recoil. And while it doesn't seem like such a big deal, those extra 2" of barrel really help the shooter's accuracy by giving you a longer sighting plane, 36% longer to be exact. <P>Or, get a 7 1/2" Super Redhawk, not the regular Redhawk. It could be just me, but the smaller diameter shape of the Redhawk punishes the web of my hand more than just about any other revolver I've tried whether DA or SA. Again, maybe that's just me as many people love their Redhawks. My three examples were all very accurate but they hurt too much with full power loads.<P>Now while the Super Redhawk is one heavy mother to carry, that heavy barrel and excellent rubber grip really tame even the worst recoiling heavy loads. Plus scope mounting is a snap if you ever want to go that way.<P>While .454's and .475 Linebaugh's and such are popular and make the .44 look like a plinker by comparison, don't let anybody kid you that a full house .44 Magnum is not a handful in any revolver. Not so much that it can't be mastered and shot very well, but it does take some getting used to. After almost 30 years I have come to appreciate Elmer's 1250 fps as being as much as is needed for any heavy revolver bullet.<P>S&W makes good, accurate revolvers with excellent triggers and sights right out of the box but I will leave the political decisions to you. I had an 8 5/8" Model 29 and it was a shooter but that DA grip frame does transfer the full recoil to your hand.<P>Mostly I have owned and shot a lot of the Ruger revolvers and can recommend them highly. I do not have experience with the Bisley model yet but do have quite a bit of experience with all of the other models and barrel lengths I've mentioned.

You got me to thinking and I was re-reading my last post and thought of more stuff.<P>Stay away from the .454 Casull until you have FULLY mastered a .44 Magnum. They are fearsome to shoot, I don't care what anybody says.<P>If you want a "Hunting" revolver with a capital H and are not so concerned with a "Carrying" revolver, I would recommend the double action Ruger Super Redhawk as the best hunting revolver today. There are others which come close, but for brute strength combined with accuracy and user ergonomics, IMHO the SRH is the winner. And that's not to say that a SRH can't be carried comfortably in a good holster combined with a good wide belt, just don't hang it off your trousers belt and expect to keep your pants up all day. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]<P>If weight and ease of carrying is a big consideration then I would recommend either the Ruger Super Blackhawk Hunter model or a Bisley model. FWIW the Hunter has the Ruger scope mounting system built into the barrel. <P>.44 or .45? If you want to work up a powerful hunting handload, the .45 wins due to the reasons mentioned in John Linebaugh's article. Otherwise, the .44 has Nosler Partitions and Federal Cast-Core in full power factory ammo as well as a plethora of good old JHP loads. The .45's big drawback is that all but a few factory loads from specialized makers are loaded weak because of all of the older revolvers out there.<P>Which one is easier to clean? I'd say the single action is a tad easier, but that does not mean the DA is difficult to clean. I really would not even consider this as a valid criteria. There just isn't enough difference between the two to warrant worrying about it.<P>Good luck with your choice.<P>And dang it, I said I had put up my .44's for good. But now ya got my mind working aainst itself thinking what a nice gun that SRH is. Hmmm... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Ruger Super Redhawk in 480 Ruger and never look back.