Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Barnes bullets, a few questions

I am finally getting around to trying some Barnes bullets. I have been well served by Noslers both BT's and Partitions the past 6 years but I have got to try the Barnes to satisfy my curiosity.

Now that we have the TSX, I can not decide to initially try the XLC or TSX first. Maybe the standard non-coated/non ringed version will shoot fine? Which do you guys try first?

Then there is the seating depth issue. Barnes states you should seat 0.050 off the lands but later in their accuracy comments they state that the best accuracy is usually achieved between 0.030 - 0.070 off the lands. Where do you guys start at?

Any additional comments and pointers about these all cooper wonders will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I've tested the standard 180 gr. X bullet and the XLC in the '06. For a given load, the X bullet increases pressures quite a bit, but the XLC keeps the pressures in the same region as popular conventional bullets of the same weight.

The problem I've had with both kinds of Barnes bullets is that they just didn't shoot worth a darn in two of my three '06s. They did shoot okay in the Ruger. In the Ruger, the best accuracy occurred when the bullet was 0.035 off the lands. In the Remington and Winchester, it didn't matter one bit where the bullet was seated. They both shot 3 MOA groups.

I just received some 270 gr. .375" TSX bullets which I'm going to test pretty soon. Whether they too increase pressures or not and deliver decent accuracy remains to be seen.

I started out with 160g XLC's in my 7mm Mag and was rewarded with frequent 3-shot, 2-hole groups under an inch. More recently I've tried te TSX's in my .257 Roberts and love them -- under an inch at 200 yards when the wind allows and I do my part.

If I didn't have a whole bunch of 160g XLC's that I bought from Midway for $12/box, I'd try the TSX'x in the 7mm. Starting out fresh like you are, I think the TSX'x are the way to go.

Coyote, I agree, go with the TSX's, they seem to solve some problems, and at the very least seem to shoot straight. Barnes says they wont discontinue the coated, but with the kind of success the TSX is having, who knows.

TSX has worked for me in 300 WM.

OKShooter,

Use a Barnes manual for working up your loads. They are longer for weight because of no lead, so there is more bearing surface in the bore. If you need some load data let me know and I'll snd it to you by personal message.

I think OKShooter is good on load data as he's written a book or two on load data... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Great! Then he won't need any of my meagre help. Just wondered about the increased pressures. Before I started using Barnes manual, I got increased pressures too. Now I don't. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Generally when I start work with a new bullet type I initially consult all the published data I can find. When I mentioned increased pressures, these were measured using the Oehler M43. The X bullet, whether flat base or boat tail, elevates pressures by 4,000 to 6,000 psi depending upon cartridge, load, seating depth, and so on. The pressure elevation has been consistent across three cartridges (.280 Rem., 7mm RemMag, .30-06) and four rifles. Unless one is already on the ragged edge, however, the increased pressure will not likely show up by examining the brass or primer. Cartidge brass will generally not start flowing into the ejector slot until somewhere around 68,000 to 70,000 psi, and primers generally won't blow until around 73,000 psi.

An example of the increased pressure I mentioned was with the 180 gr. Barnes XFB. My base load was 58 grs. H-4350 behind the Remington 180 gr. PSP Core-Lokt, W-W brass and WLR primer. Out of the 24" barrel of my M70 Classic, this load turns in a consistent 2700 fps @ 53,600 psi. The Barnes XFB produced 2750 fps @ 59,600 psi. The XLC was more in line with the 55,000 psi generated by popular conventional bullets in that rifle.

Two other bullets that tend to up the pressure is the Swift Scirocco and the Nosler Ballistic Tip. Both of these bullets have a long bearing surface, as does the Barnes X.

While on this subject, that 58 gr. H-4350 load is fine in my Winchester. However, it is not good in either my Remington M700 or Ruger M77 Mk. II. In both of these rifles, that same load with conventional Hornady or Speer bullets or the premium-type Swift A-Fame and Nosler Partition will push the pressure into the 63,000 to 66,000 psi range. The Ruger has a short throat and the Remington had a tight chamber.

Absolutely try the Triple Shocks First. They are much less twiddly than the X and XLC's and in many guns will give excellent accuracy. Many of the X's and XLC's may be discontinued due to the great success they have been having with the TSX's.
I have a Featherweight Sako M-75 Finnlite in 270 Winchester that shoots 130gr Triple Shocks reasonably well:




You might note that this is a 300 yard group. At 100yds they usually shoot into bugholes if the wind is OK.
I've also had good luck with 180gr TSX's in 300 WSM and 160gr TSX's in 280. I start at .050 off the lands and adjust back and forth as needed. Usually you can approach normal powder charges without pressure "signs", something you can't always do with std X's.
Good Luck........DJ

I have used the deepshok for pigs and the SST's for deer but the 150 TSX has replaced both for my .308. It seems to open pretty easy yet gives plenty of penetration. Copper fouling has not been an issue and what little is there comes out with Eliminator or Sweets.

I started at .050 off the lands and played with a little longer and shorter but could see no tangible benefits. If Barnes will ever put out a 100gr .264 I will be forced to buy another rifle to play with.

I too recommend the TSX to start with. My 708 loves em, the deer hate em <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Four shots, four kills this year with no deer going more than 50 yards from the impact site. My gun has such a long throat that I don't worry about 'off the lands'. I just use the same OAL that my other loads liked and found the TSX did too. The 140's are deer medicine but I got some of the new 120's to try for fun. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> me I'm a deeraholic.

Shootist,if you will,I would love some load reccomendations using the Barnes TSX 168gr.,.300 Win.mag.Would you happen to have suggestions using Ramshot Magnum powder?
Thanks,Jim.jlhmagnumatt.net

Jim: I get very small groups in my .300 Win Mag using 84 grains of H1000 (that's a max load in my rifle, somewhat compressed), a 168 grain TSX and Win large rifle primers.

OKShooter,
I just looked at your profile and have to admit that I am a little envious. You apparently used to work with some real long range rifles.
I have always wondered "what is the typical group size for a 155mm at ten miles"? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bigbrass, that's practically the same load I ended up with. I use 83.5 grains of H1000 in my .300 WM with the 168 grain TSX.

Sorry, but that specific information is classified. I can say, though, that with an accurate and current target MET 85% of the rounds will impact within the lethal burst radius of the 98 lb. 155mm HER (high explosive rocket assisted projectile) without the necessity of prior registration.

85 % first hit probability at ten miles is a darned impressive number. I certainly would not wish to be on the wrong side of a battle and have our boys aiming at me.
Thanks for the response.

Nor would I. And that 85% probability is with only one gun firing. Fire the entire battery, and the probability increases to 100%. Generally, though, at that range the target is rather large. An assembly area or something of the sort. This would bring in multiple batteries, cannon and probably rocket, for a TOT (time on target) fire mission. TOT means pretty much what it implies -- all rounds and/or munitions from all batteries will arrive on target at virtually the same time. This will turn the target area into a literal translation of the popular concept of Hell.

This is an impressive gun!!

G6 Howitzer

Enlarge the second picture from the bottom and look at the top edge of the picture.

Similar to the Army's current M109A6 (Paladin) but may be more heavily armored. The cancelled Crusader would have been a truly awesome platform, but it was really designed for heavy engagement with the Red Army.