Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 44 Mag, 310 gr WFN GC

All of these animales were killed quickly and no need for tracking with proper wide meplat flat point hard cast bullets





















Never have I experienced a slow kill with wide meplat hard cast bullets. A narrow flat point is another story

The farthest I've had a critter run was 30 yds, got it through the lungs, but that was with a RCBS SAA 45 Colt bullet; the meplat is about the same as a WFN 44.

That's not far actualy, I've seen them run farther shot through the lungs with a rifle

Very true. I have had them run quite a ways with Brenneke slug through the lungs as well, well ast 100 yds..

That shot was at 75 yards, and the lungs were may primary target, not my first choice.

jwp, how many hollow points will open at 75 yards? (grins)

Like I said, if you don't want to track, hit bone.

Those WFN's make a mockery out of critter bones.

Bob, they seem pretty close. I have a Bowen rear sight. With it screwed all the way down I'm hitting grapefruit size rocks at 25 yards. Probably the shorter barrel helps to with less bbl time, and the angular geometry involved.

I'll get it on paper and get some quantifiable answers.

Put this load on paper today. elevation is perfect with rear sight all the way down.

25 yards, weaver stance, five rounds. The inner square is 2", outer is 5". The sideways hits are from a (unstable) 45-70 load I'm fiddling with.

I'd say that .45-70 is unstable. YIKES!

And, I'd not want to be a thing in front of a man with that .44 Magnum load.

THAT, will work!

My heavy 44 load is 21.5 grs H110 & a 310 LBT slug, I've taken a lot of game with that load, nothing stays on its feet more than 3-4 seconds at the most. I've taken everything from moose, elk, bear & african game & lots of the "normal" stuff like deer, antelope & hogs with cast slugs, they never fail if placed properly. Wounded with a 458 is still wounded.
I sometimes wonder where people come up with the slow reacting stuff when referring to cast slugs, I've used them for over 40 years & they just flat work.......always! I've never recovered one so I always have two holes in the hide.
In a few weeks I'll be going after my 7th bear, my gun will be a 5 shot 480 Bisley & my bullet will be a wide flat nose LBT 370 grain slug at 1100 fps, I'll take any angle a bear gives me & I'll hear the bullet richochet off the ground when it exits.
This Wyoming fork horn buck was facing me at about 85 yds, straight on, the Keith style slug hit him in the center chest & exited just in front of the hind quarter, penetration was about 3 feet, the gun was a 5 1/2" Ruger Bisley with a 230 gr Keith at 1200 fps, he was down & out in 3-4 seconds. What would a rifle have done with a straight on shot?



Took this bull moose at 45 yds, offhand with a Ruger 480, 370 gr softnose cast, one shot & down in 20 yds, complete penetration, would a rifle have done better, what would a jacketed handgun slug have done?




Dick

Dick,

I'm interested in your softnosed cast experiences.

I am a real fan of them myself.

Hawk1, don't want to hi-jack this thread. Are you asking how do I make them or what results have I had?

Thanks, Dick

Results;

I make them myself and have had great results. I can post a pic of a 44 cal 350 WLN in action if it keeps in line with the thread? (grins)

I know you have been around the tree more than once, so its nice to learn.

Don't hold back, I'm interested too.

200 gr, WFN 44 mag to 350 WLN 44 Super Mag; the biggest is obviously the 350 WLN.


Softnose hit on a deer at 125 yards my pard shot.




Entrance on a finisher shot from my 45 Colt (325 WFN) Note the spine was hit with a SST slug.


The only one I have recovered. A 50 325gr sabot load. Head on in brisket. Bullet recovered in the rump after going full length and breaking rear femur.


[img:center]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff127/nkhoff/100_1935.jpg[/img]

Softnoses can get real silly in rifles, but that is another story

I don't have anything to add that some of the more experienced guys have not already said. I have a strong preference for hardcast bullets, having seen truckloads of game taken with them. I will continue to hunt with them.

With that being said, keep the pics coming! I love looking at them!!

I'm also here to tell you that HawkI's cast slugs are (or can be) ridiculously accurate. My .45LC Bisley Blackhawk loves the 285 WFN.

And how much game have you killed with, say, Elmer Keith's old #429421 bullet ?
Alot of people seem to think that only how wide the nose of the bullet is makes the differences as to how well it kills. I've got news for you guys. That sharp shoulder on the SWC design kills just as well as the full wadcutter designs. BTDT.
The guy I listen to on all of this is JJHack. He and his clients have killed 100's of black bears with all sorts of handgun rounds and loads. He has found that the jacket soft point/hollow point bullets kill black bears alot faster than any cast lead load.
BTW, he seems to feel that if you are up against a grizzly, you'd better hit him in the brain with any handgun load. Anywhere else and you'd better hope he decides not to go after you. That's because they can easily be alot harder to kill. E

Elmer believed incorrectloy that the wad cutter shoulder cut a full caliber hole, that is not correct., Yes it will in paper, but flesh cavitates around the meplat. This has been proven beyound dought

Keep on beliving JJ about cast bullets not working. The 45 ACP's that is refers to were most likely round nose. I have asked him about the meplat of those bullets on more than one ocasion and have yet to get a reply.


Yes I have used the small meplat "Kieth" style SWC and they are not close to the equal of the wider meplat LBT style hard cast bullets.

Wow! I'm sure glad that jwp's grizz didn't know that a body shot wasn't fatal coming from a handgun! He probably would have been eaten if the bear had been privy to this information. Darn good thing bears don't spend any time on these sites or we'd all be in trouble......

We could be in trouble...

I've taken a great deal of game with the Keith style slugs including the #429421, in fact its been my most used of any cast slug over the past 40+ years. Except for one elk and 3-4 deer all my big game has been with cast bullets.
Again, nothing will make up for poor shot placement, thats a myth that some of the more inexperienced shooters or keyboard experts would have you believe, it just isn't true, hit an animal right & start punching your tag. Also again I'll say that you need "placement" & you need "penetration", the shooter has to do #1 & the bullet has to do #2.
A wide nose slug going at the same velocity will create more damage than a SWC, thats a given, some will try to split hairs here but both work great & the part about cast bullets working slow & a jacketed bullet working like a sledge hammer is mostly untrue, it can happen but every shot on game is different & comparisons are hard to make. I do believe that jacketed bullets on deer from a blind might be a better option because its usually a broadside shot at close range. In my neck of the woods the shots are usually longer, almost never is it the classic broadside shot, the animals are generally on a slope so the shot is uphill or downhill. I'm confident my cast slugs will reach the vitals from any angle, I never worry about angles if I am within my shooting range.

Forkhorn muley, offhand, about 65 yds using a 4 5/8's Ruger 44 maggie & the great 250 gr Keith #429421, complete penetration & down in 30 yds.




"bull" jackrabbits, Keith style 357 maggie #358429



Muley buck, 108 yds using the Keith style 358429 in a 357 Maximum, buck took 3-4 steps backwards & down.



Heart & lungs from the above deer, would a jacketed bullet have done better?



Cow elk, 168 yds using a Ruger 45 colt & a Keith #452424 260 gr slug, complete penetration, she ran maybe 35 yds (3-4 seconds) & down.



Color phase black bear (6' 9") Ruger 10" 44 maggie & the Keith #429421, shot at about 80 yds, bear rolled (not run) 20 yds down the hill towards me, dead in 2-3 seconds, complete penetration.



S&W 44 maggie using the 250 gr Keith #429421, shot at 55 yds, dropped at the shot, complete penetration.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1651.jpg[/img]

Montana whitetail doe, 15 yds, Ruger 41 maggie & the Keith 230 gr SWC, dropped at the shot.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1686-5.jpg[/img]

Another Montana whitetail, taken the next day, shot was about 90 yds running, Ruger 41 maggie & the 230 gr Keith SWC, bullet hit in front of the right hind quarter, exited the left front shoulder, deer was running hard, turned a compete flip at the shot.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1692-3.jpg[/img]

Cinammon phase black bear, Ruger 10" 44 maggie & 250 gr Keith #429421, complete penetration, traveled 10 yds.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1380-1.jpg[/img]

Calf elk, 45 yds using the Ruger 45 & the Keith 260 gr #452424, complete penetration, down in 3-4 seconds.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_1718-1.jpg[/img]

Montana whitetail buck, Ruger 44 special & the Keith #429421, shot was 25-30 yds running, hit him twice, both shots exited, traveled 30 yds & down.

[img]http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k3/6shot_01/100_2218-1.jpg[/img]

I can fill up several more pages but I have 4500 photos to go through.

Dick