Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Some satirical notes about reloading for newbies

First off, don't have a cow! We don't want to disturb the anal retentives! Some might think that this is tongue in cheek. Others will say it's more like a pitchfork in the butt. Regardless, this is a simple collection of thoughts about...

Reloading and the Internets!
Copyright 2010 � Stephen Redgwell

It starts with a simple inquiry, �What do I need to start?�

What follows rarely helps. It's usually a collection of confusing or nonsensical advice that doesn't actually answer the question.

Each of the first four or five posters will suggest a different equipment manufacturer. It�s important to sound like you have a preference and know your stuff. It�s also important to mention a brand name that has not been posted yet.

Then someone says something nasty about Lee Precision.

A couple of people will recommend a progressive press. For the people that do not reload, this is a multi-station unit that performs several reloading steps with each pull of the handle. One station de-primes and resizes the case, the next re-primes, the third adds powder, another seats a bullet, etc. It's more difficult to use and requires that you monitor several operations at the same time. It is more involved than a single stage press.

Well, that�s great, but the original poster doesn�t know anything about the subject. Why are they recommending a more complex piece of machinery to someone that's never used any kind of press at all? Oh wait; they�ll have an opinion about that too.

Then someone praises Lee Precision.

Some guys will go into great detail about how many cartridges they reload for, how long they�ve been reloading and the guaranteed best techniques to use. They love to describe in numbing detail about micing cases, how huge the difference was changing the powder load by 0.2 of a grain, altering the bullet seating depth or the importance of chamber casts. Huh? The original poster is a newbie! To quote Winnie the Pooh, �Oh, bother!� None of this helps. It�s just Internets diarrhea.

Then someone says something nasty about Lee Precision.

A couple of posts with pictures will appear. These are usually target photos showing a couple of three or five shot groups, complete with notations about the powder used, date and group size. Again, they don�t help the original poster one iota. He�s still in the dark about basic equipment, and is starting to get discouraged. Everybody says how great reloading is, how small their groups are and what the best technique is. The question still remains, what does he need to start?

Then someone praises Lee Precision.

Just when you�re thinking that it might be over, the horror continues. Someone will post that they disagree with something that another guy posted earlier. It�s usually about technique. Honestly though, it�s nothing to fret over. They�re just having a �this versus that� discussion which, if you�re smart, you�ll ignore. This happens all the time, and in case you hadn�t noticed, they aren�t helping either.

After a couple of pages, the discussion degenerates into a few small fights about equipment, with silly arguments about why you should believe them and not the other guy. Meh�it�s the Internets.

If you want to know more about reloading, the first thing to learn is not to post anything on the Internet saying that you�re a newbie and want to learn more about reloading. (Whew! A run on sentence! Read it a couple of more times.)

Buy a manual that describes the basic process and go with their recommendations. They are in the reloading business and have been doing this for a while.

Find a mentor that lives near you to help with your setup. If you have to listen to someone go on endlessly about the subject, it�s best to get it from one person, not a group of unknown posters.

If there is no one that lives nearby, private mail someone you feel you can trust.

Employ the K.I.S.S. principle - Keep It Simple Stupid. Even if you own 100 firearms, pick one cartridge and learn on that. Stick with one that�s easy to find cases and bullets for, like 223 Rem or 308 Win for example.

Although you do not know much about reloading, ignore the prejudices of others. Buy the basic dies and tools regardless of who made them. Start with a clean slate and form your own opinions based on what you learn with the help of your mentor. Reloading is a hobby that you grow into. No matter what people say, you will buy more and different equipment than what you start with. It�s a voyage of discovery.

After you�ve been reloading for a while, come back and tell us about your journey. Even if you�re curious about something, don�t pose any questions in an open forum! I guarantee that your post will generate a ton of free advice without the need to ask anything.

In no time at all, you�ll be absorbed into the reloading collective and will be dispensing your own unsolicited advice. Welcome!

Worthy of a sticky in my opinion. Kudos

There's a lot of truth in that post. It's very hard sometimes to cipher through what's worthy and what's not in soooooooooo many threads.

fish head

There is no question that elicts more response than a new guy asking for equipment advice. It do get amusing even tho it's often useless to the poor guy who's wanting some realistic guidance.

Seems many of us are quite anxious to point newbies to where we have gotten after a few years, often for very specialized work that has little or no relationship to what the new guy says he will be doing. That leads to some ludicrous "expert advice" coming down as holy writ from Mt. Olympus, often with some condescending remarks about anyone with different (or more intelligent) suggestions for the new guy. And their "logic" leaves alot to be desired; "That's what I use.", "Ya git what ya pay for", "Get xxxx, it's the BEST, it's all I've ever used.", etc. I once saw a guy say he wanted to load for his .30-30, on a budget, what would be the "best" press for him; one suggested a Forster Co-Ax, another a Rock Chucker, another a Dillon 550, each was the "best". They also suggested something else might work for a beginner but would never be nearly as precise or last as long! Sheesh! So, reluctanty, I jumped in to defend Lee as a better choice FOR HIM (if not for me) and got slimed for it. ??

I think a sticky about the Basic must haves... not the manufactures.

Include kits and what is normally missing from them (if anything).

Any new loaders could reference (or be directed to) that sticky.

Then if they insist on asking about brands or technique� well at least they will have the basics.

Your thoghts and I have many that are basically the same. I would like to add just one.
There are instances of a poster asking "what do I need to start" and the same poster not six months later offering advise on how tos and what works best.

I agree--been thinkig about doing that for a long time.....when I get around to it......




Casey

Well done - very accurate. I would add that someone will advise the newbie to purchase the most expensive model available for each item because everyone knows that you get what you pay for.

I hear you. By their thinking I goofed. When I bought my equipment almost 30 years ago I bought new stuff but simple & what works. I still have only the Lyman "O"-mag press & same RCBS accessories. It wasn't top of the line but hey it's still working like new.

Exactly.

It's sort of a Catch-22. The money generated from sales of components, equipment and accessories feed families, but the ad men went too far when they started their "premium at any cost" campaigns. It's getting harder to afford what they tell you to buy.

Selling too many Partitions might make Nosler richer, but we've lost a number of bullet weights and diameters in Rem and Win's bulk bullet line. Proven bullets for a lot of different game species hunted across the continent. Cup and core bullets may not work well in the new magnum cartridges, but I have to wonder why more people are using magnums of any flavour on game that we used to hunt with 308s or 30-06s. It's that Catch-22 again. The market has to remain fresh with new products offered to keep the economy working.

There are exceptions to the rule of course, but take a plain vanilla 30-06. Partitions or Accubonds for deer and black bear? Cup and core bullets aren't up to the job anymore? Case prices are crazy. 50 Nosler brass are $41 vs 50 Win brass at $21.

Like you, I'm glad that I've got equipment to reload. If you don't reload, but want to use premium bullets, the price for 20 factory cartridges is almost 400 percent higher than reloaded ones. That same 30-06 loaded with Accubonds is approx. $16/20 to reload versus $62/20 to buy from Winchester. Wow.

At any rate, people that want to reload to reduce costs or produce more accurate ammunition have to fight the ad men once they work their way through the reloader's learning curve!

I'm almost afraid to say this, but there are times when having fewer choices is better. What a minefield!

Whenever I get to thinking about how much primers, brass, powder and good bullets cost these days, I open my Midway or Cabelas catalogue and look at the prices of factory ammo that will perform as my reloads do...

I have a saying that originally was political but also applies to admen & salesmen. "The most dangerous person in the world is one who can think for themself."

The only thing I would say is if you want to start...I really wouldn't pick .223 and .308 because of good componenet availability. Just from my glancing around in the last 15 months....just saying. I understand his point to start with a popular cartridge however.

Yup, that about sums it up. Good post, BTW.

Steve Thank you for having the guts! If I'm asked I tell some one the make of the press I use if I'm asked now there was two before this one and not a thing wrong with them ether. The only thing I insist on for my son's and beginners is a beam scale first' electric latter or maybe never.

Best Alan

Thanks.

Sometimes, my mind drifts back to lazy afternoons, sitting around the picnic table reloading for a 222 Rem. I was too young and stupid to realize that Lee Loaders and Remington bulk bullets were no good for hunting.

I'd pour some 4198 into a case using a dipper, oblivious to the fact that there were better powders...at least, that's what other shooters told me. I was ignorant on how to get consistent powder levels. I blindly trusted the magazine write-ups that said to pass the scoop through the powder once and level it with a business card. The best I could manage were .75 inch groups. God, I was so naive.

I'm genuinely surprised that some college hasn't come out with an associate's degree in Ammunition Construction Technology, so people can learn to do it properly. I mean, who wouldn't want a degree in applied technology? What's that worth? It would only cost $5,000 or $10,000. AscAT - Ass Cat, It's got a ring to it, don't you think?

chuckle...excellent insights! I started with the old $9.95 Lee loader, a pound of 4064 (when there was only one), a box of CCI 200s and a box of Hornady 150 grain spire points, and a wooden hammer my dad made me from a broken pitchfork handle. I have progressed to owning lots of high dollar equipment.

What makes some people decry the "value" lines of equipment is the need to justify the more expensive stuff. But the cheap stuff works, and pretty darned well at that. The expensive stuff is better....but there is the law of diminishing returns, which I've blown by like a rocket past a model T.

I still remember my mom getting really nervous when a primer would go off in that old Lee loader. You literally hammered the case over the primer, and if you didn't line things up right, bang. She eventually got used to it, though.

300 savage just reading your post makes me chuckle, have some good memories of me and two older brothers with the old Lee Loader and an odd primer going off mother would be on the main floor above us when that priming rod hit the .75 ply-board we had the smarts to put above the loading area. I believe we herd some words we hadn't herd from mom. Can you remember did the instructions say to keep head back when priming, it must have none of us ended in the hospital.

Thanks guys for bringing back the memories.
Best Alan
PS. our wooden hammer dad turned on his wood lathe out of a short length of the old hitching pole of a old hay rack some good wood, made a hell of a base ball bat to.

Many of the members already have a PHD (piled higher and deeper)
I bought a Bonnanza CO-AX about 35 years ago and never saw a need to "upgrade".
whelennut

This is bringing back memories! I never blew the priming rod out....I would hold the die body firmly on the floor with my left hand, and when a primer blew I would feel it, but no projectiles. The noise was startling, though...

Dad took a 4" section of broken pitchfork handle, the part down by the fork where the wood was largest in diameter, and drilled it for a length of dowel to use as a handle..I believe the handle was 3/4". It worked fine, but after a year or so I got a fiberglass hammer for a birthday present, and it was an improvement.

I was loading for a Savage M99 in .308 then. After about 4 reloadings (even with the mild load the dipper threw) the cases would chamber hard and I would take the cases to a friends house who had a press and .308 dies and he would FL resize them for me.

Later I got a Lee Loader for .30 carbine....I had acquired a Blackhawk in that caliber. That die full length sized....took lots of beating to get the case into the die (yes, I was using lube). I learned to go to the shop and used a vice to smoothly press the case into the die. Other than that, it worked well. I used those two Lee Loaders till I was 18, when I hired out to a neighbor to load railroad ties he had bought...I got paid 50 dollars for the day and RCBS rockchucker with dies was on sale for $54.99. Close enough. Still use that Rockchucker and it's 32 years old and good as the day I bought it.