Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Tell me about the 358 Winchester

I was driving back to school today and along the river there is some really thick vegetation. Its all willows, aspen, and pine trees. There has to be monster whitetails down there and i have seen moose there too. Looks good for black bears and probably elk. I got to thinking that i dont have a rifle for thick brush/woods and the 358 Win came to mind. The only thing i have that would half way qualify is a marlin 336 30-30 but i would be interested in something bigger if i ever had to hunt the thick stuff. So tell me about the 358 Win. The pros, cons, and experiences with it. I just remembered the 338 Federal. Would the 338 Federal make more sense as a woods gun? Not trying to start an arguement here but just wanted some help on deciding which one to get if i ever get a dedicated woods gun.

For a woods gun, think light and compact, easy to maneuver in brush. DO NOT think caliber. There's no such thing as as brush caliber. NONE will bull through brush without deflecting. If you don't have a clear shot, you don't have any shot.
That said, the 358 is an excellent deer/moose/bear round if you don't try to shoot brush with it.

I have a Savage Model 99 in .358 Winchester for hunting the timber in Oregon. Nice short rifle with a 1.5x5 scope. Without the scope it is a great saddle gun. Deer/moose/bear no problems.

I really don't understand why the .358; because it is my belief that the .338-08 would have been much better.

DeerTracker,

Try this link.

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=016407629494559605640:xponie3lspc

24hourcampfire search engine.

There has been much said about the 358 Win & 338 Fed. Both are awesome woods cartridges IMHO. What sold me on the 338 federal was the Sako 85 ss I was able to buy from another member here for $725. You can't beat that with a stick. I just finished cooking up some loads for it this weekend and will shoot it soon. I have no doubts about it being effective on the deer, bear or moose I point it at.

I also have a weatherby MV 20" carbine in 308 Winchester that will see some field time especially in and around swamps and thickets.

Your 30-30 with 170gr partitions would work very well by the way.

It's good to have options in our business!

CLB

The .338-08???? That's called the .338 Federal and niether it nor the .358 are setting any sales records. Both are sort of "niche" rounds for use at medium to close range with a big punch.

In this case (thick brush / close range) the .358 or .338 Fed. would be very good choices with heavy-for-caliber bullets. While there is no bullet that will shoot "through" brush.....that's not the point. What you need is a big bore bullet that will consistantly penetrate and exit even on less-than-perfect shots. It's all about leaving a good blood trail and the "shock" that a good big bore gives you (and YES...big bores DO hit harder at close range no matter what the "experts" shooting their .243's and .257's say).

While the .30-30 "may" give enough penetration (I'd feel a lot better about it if you hadn't thrown in the possibility of Elk and Moose)....it will not consistantly leave as good a blood trail as the bigger rounds and the "reaction" to the shot by the animal will be less (on average). It's that "reaction" that is critical. While the big bores won't kill all that much quicker (although they DO kill somewhat quicker on average) the reaction to the shot may be your only clue as to a good hit in thick brush where the game is out of sight in a few feet.

Without an immediate blood trail, this can add a lot of confidence when you search for the shot-at animal. It is seldom that even fairly big game doesn't give some reaction (stumble, stagger or at least flinch) when hit by a big bore bullet at close range. This might not be so true with a smaller bore size.

The .338 Fed. and .358 Win. also give a bit more velosity (and thus range) than the .30-30 if a shot of 250-300 yards should present it's self. Both are easily 300 yard capible while the .30-30 is at it's best at less than 200 yards. If longer range is truely not an issue, I'd add the .45-70 and .375 Winchester to thelist as well. If your game didn't include Elk and Moose, I'd also consider the .44 Magnum in a rifle and the .35 Rem.

The main "problem" with the .338 Fed. and .358 is finding a suitable rifle to shoot. MOST shooters just don't a bolt-action rifle as well as they do a good lever, pump or semi-auto when fast repeat shots are called for. This can be overcome with a LOT of practice, but for the "average" hunter.....the bolt action is NOT the best choice. If you CAN shoot the bolt action well.....you can also add the .35 Whelen and 9.3x62mm to the mix of proper calibers.

Other than the Browning BLR there are few non-bolt rifles available today......that basically leaves the used gun market. My own battery of "brush" rifles includes the Savage 99 in .358, Marlin lever guns in .45-70 and .35 Rem (I also carry a Remington Model 14 in .35 remington sometimes), Wichester Big Bore in .375 Win. and a Ruger carbine in .44 mag. Any of these would be great choices for a fast, heavy-hitting "brush" rifle.

By the way......even though it's not a "big bore" (I do love te bigger guns).....don't overlook the .308 Win. for this type hunting. It is available in every type action known to man, has enough range to "reach out" and while maybe not a true big bore.....ain't that small either. It might be the best choice of all for a combination short-longer range rifle to walk the hills with.

TejasRick said a lot of good stuff there.

I have had two .358's, currently have one. It's a Model 7 that I had rebarreled. I have killed deer with several bullets, but have settled on the 225-gn Partition at about 2500 fps as the best all-arounder.

I use it because I really want my deer down NOW, or if they do not, I want a red carpet of blood. Also I hate wrecking meat and since my kills are often at close range, the goal is something tha kills fast WITHOUT going 3200 fps! And the .358 does just that.

It's a really neat cartridge.

I wouldn't even consider one unless I was a handloader, though.

My hunting partner for more than 25 years uses the 358 on elk for blk timber to open sage out to 250 yards. I have to agree that its a killer, he reloads for it. He has a Sav 99 358, Rem 760 and Rem 742 that were in .308 Win and set them out to be re-bored to the 358. I think its a good round that didn't get off the ground and assortment of bullets is not as great as in the .338 caliber. Never the less its a good short action round.

Just in the "for what it's worth" category, with a 225 Partition a .358 will hold 1800 fps out to 400 yards, with reasonable wind drift to boot.

I shoot mine out that far at targets and it does just fine (using turrets). Have not killed anything with it past about 125 yards though. It sure put the smackdown on the doe at 125 yards however!

Do not overlook the 356 Winchester Big Bore. The beefed up Model 94 won't take 358 Win. pressures but close enough that any game you shoot will not notice the difference. Chronographed velocities from a 20" barrel:
220 grain Speer 2404 fps
250 grain Hawk 2152 fps

375 win

im gonna be different and say .35 whelen

Im kind of leaning towards a 338 Federal at the moment. My brother shoots a 338 win so we have bullets around for that. My mind changes just about every day as to what gun i wanna get next. Problem is that im a broke college kid. I guess ill have to handle the ruger hawkeye we have at work tomorrow and see what i think about it. Maybe a lay away is in the future.

I see midwayusa is once again offering 358 Win
barrels for Savage 10/110 series rifles. Heck, find
a Stevens 200 in 308 and switch barrels.

Priorities....

DeerTracker,

Some good stuff here. The best bullet for hunting in the brush is one that doesn't hit any brush. I have hit brush an few times, and it messes with accuracy.., badly.

I liked the advice you received concerning quick handling rifles, and practicing a lot with it. You can learn to roll a bolt pretty quick, but it is really that first shot that is going to be your best chance at making a solid hit.

I also like that the older Savages (pre accu-trigger) and the Stevens rifles are really good platforms and are less expensive than their counter parts. If you are diligent, and patient (qualities of a good hunter), you should be able to find one of these near $300.00.

It can be in any chambering....to start with.

Midway does currently sell the 358 Winchester barrel for those rifles, the Savage, and Stevens.

For their short action offerings I like..,

1) 358 Winchester (handload 200 grain TSX)
2) 338 Federal (factory or handload)

For long actions...

1) 35 Whelen
2) 338-06

Any of those four, when loaded correctly will not disappoint and give you a good case of perma-grin.

If you want a great little handling rifle, consider the extra money for the Ruger Hawkeye Compact in 338 RCM.


Those five cartridges are very well ballanced to match what you are looking to do.

Also, there is no need for a barrel on any of those over 21"



...love my Whelen.

If you want a good brush rifle, look for a used Ruger Frontier rifle in 358, 338 or even 308. They are the perfect brush rifle with their 16" barrel and 35" overall length. You can find them on Gunbroker or GunsAmerica. You can even use a forward mounted scope or red dot. Another good brush gun is the Marlin guide gun.

Nobody has mentioned it, but if you can find a Remington Pump rifle (either Model 760 or 7600) in 35 Whelan that would be a great gun for your use. These rifles were not a catalog item, but Remington made special runs for certain dealers. A gun shop in Clearfield, PA called Grice Gun Shop often has a special run made for them.

I did a brush test with my .358 last year. Here's a link. I just bumped it to the top of this forum, also.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3540307/1

or you can mount a regular scope w/ the correct rings...
this is a 308 w/ a 2-7 leupold. very thick hunting property.
[/quote]

The merits of the 358 Winchester is the same as any other short action "Brush Gun". What most people call a brush gun has nothing to do it shooting through brush in case anyone was confused about that, a good brush gun is any short action, short barreled, light, handy, quick to point, rifle that's easier to manuever through thick woods than your average 22-24" barreled long action rifle. What makes the 358 Winchester so cool is that it has enough power to take elk and moose cleanly in a short, light, handy rifle,(the same goes for the 338 Federal) that's the same size as a rifle chambered for the 308. The 358 is a great cartridge but one thing to keep in mind is your bullet and factory ammo selection is gonna be a lot more limited than with a 338 Federal, if you handload, that's not a huge deal, but if you don't, you might want to check out the 338 Federal. Although I do handload and I'd prefer the 338 Federal only because of the better bullet selection, because then one can make loads specifically for a particular hunting application. They are both great cartridges and neither would be a bad choice, so it's really up to you. I hope that helped a bit.

Go with your gut right there. The 358Win and 338Fed are basically the same in the performance category. Though the 358 is a "has been" and the 338Fed is still fighting for its life. I'd hunt with either and be happy.

RH