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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,416 Likes: 11
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,416 Likes: 11 |
I try to study every shooting that I can and personally believe that calibers 9mm,40 and 45 when loaded with good bullets there is little to no difference. Hits matter and just not any hits but good solid mass hits or cns hits. Pistol bullets do not kill like rifle bullets and holes in vital organs is what causes people to quit trying to kill you.
A few years ago, we had a drug bust go bad and a couple cops were killed. The 1st guy in took a 44 mag round to the chest. He still was able to empty the mag on his .223 carbine into the perp before he died. Big bullets aren't necessarily instant death even with a good hit.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,500
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,500 |
500.00 for the used ones from what I heard. Little high in my opinion.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 28
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 28 |
As a ICU/ER RN, I have seen quite a few wounds/trauma due to shootings from a variety of firearms. I have taken care of, sometimes that means a very short period of time in the trauma bay before the patient expires, a variety of handgun wounds. Different calibers, hardball, hollow points..whatever. In the end, my opinion is that it matters more to where the hit is as oppossed to what did the hitting. Most hollow points, in my experience, mushroom less that half the time. I've seen one shot kills with 38's and 9mm's, survivors with multiple hits from large bore rounds ( 44,45 )....and vice versa. In the end, it reminds me of what a friend of mine once said. He was a retired Federal Agent, and said that handguns are ok for defense...but if your going into a gun fight nothing takes the place of a rifle or shotgun! Hopefully none of us will ever be in a postition to have to find out. Good luck and health to all. Hope this helps in some way.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
I basically stopped reading the handgun forum when the argument was made against Glocks as they wouldn't hold up to the abuse of being used a club to beat "bad guys". That and the infamous, "Frisbee Test". That was beyond stupid. There's a wide range of knowledge down there, not to mention opinions. There are also Glock devotees and those who are objective about the Glock. I don't recall the "Frisbee Test."
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
Men can even become experts on childbirth by the miracle of the written word. You should try it. The way I understand it, childbirth entails a little pain, of which no man knows. The written word only goes so far.... As for the pain, the written word can draw comparisons.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971 |
Good to know there'll be a bunch of police trade in SIG .45s on the market again soon. and a shortage of 9 ammo.
Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!
Go Nats!!!!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
Good to know there'll be a bunch of police trade in SIG .45s on the market again soon. and a shortage of 9 ammo. You always have to see the storm cloud behind every silver lining, don't you?
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 62,043 |
I'll make a call to double-check but IIRC, Fairfax County switched from 9mm after the detective parking lot shooting deaths to either a 41 or 45. I'll follow up to make sure,though. I could be wrong and heard only of a wish or preference.
Last edited by isaac; 04/14/10.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
I basically stopped reading the handgun forum when the argument was made against Glocks as they wouldn't hold up to the abuse of being used a club to beat "bad guys". That and the infamous, "Frisbee Test". That was beyond stupid. Well Glock took the �Frisbee Test� seriously enough that they corrected that particular deficiency. It isn�t a stupid test, it�s actually a pretty good idea. While running, it�s not uncommon for an officer to take a face plant, and when you do so, those who are not trained how to fall, will come down hands first, slamming their pistol on the ground. The �Frisbee Test� showed that there was a good chance that a Glock�s slide would pop off, rendering the gun useless. Glock quickly beefed up their rails and this has not been a problem for years. As for using the Glock as a club, I think it�s pretty well known that pistol whipping has been horribly frowned upon for well over 25 years; I wouldn�t worry about that one.
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 26,524 |
As for using the Glock as a club, I think it�s pretty well known that pistol whipping has been horribly frowned upon for well over 25 years;
I must have missed the memo..... That's a crude joke by the way. I only use revolvers as clubs.
Last edited by RWE; 04/14/10.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,500
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,500 |
As a ICU/ER RN, I have seen quite a few wounds/trauma due to shootings from a variety of firearms. I have taken care of, sometimes that means a very short period of time in the trauma bay before the patient expires, a variety of handgun wounds. Different calibers, hardball, hollow points..whatever. In the end, my opinion is that it matters more to where the hit is as oppossed to what did the hitting. Most hollow points, in my experience, mushroom less that half the time. I've seen one shot kills with 38's and 9mm's, survivors with multiple hits from large bore rounds ( 44,45 )....and vice versa. In the end, it reminds me of what a friend of mine once said. He was a retired Federal Agent, and said that handguns are ok for defense...but if your going into a gun fight nothing takes the place of a rifle or shotgun! Hopefully none of us will ever be in a postition to have to find out. Good luck and health to all. Hope this helps in some way. You have an interesting wealth of knowledge. Your Fed buddy is entirely correct.
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,959 Likes: 3
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,959 Likes: 3 |
With modern +p loads, the 9mm is awesomely effective. A knife wielding assailent is inside the 21 foot danger area and is racing toward you at full speed and you have 1 shot to stop him do you realy want a 9mm or a 45 with a 230 grainer ate 950 FPS I know which one that I am going to take
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
We are still using the Sig 226 9mm here since we changed from wheel guns. I have a personal Glock 19. We use the Speer 124 grain +P as duty ammo. I ccw a Glock 19-I like it. I don't feel handicapped with 16 +P 125gr Corbons, either. Still, my 'house gun' is a Glock 21SF with 230gr HPs, so I guess I am not in any campfire 'faction' when it comes to the caliber stuff.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971 |
I know which one that I am going to take
Me too---Casull .454
Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!
Go Nats!!!!
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,801 Likes: 23 |
I know which one that I am going to take
Me too---Casull .454 .375 H&H for me.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
That's probably a good choice if they are going to utilize a single gun and round. The Glock is easier to operate, shoot and maitain and the 9mm is definately easier to hit with than the .45acp. Most cops arn't gun enthusiasts and easier is better.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
That's probably a good choice if they are going to utilize a single gun and round. The Glock is easier to operate, shoot and maitain and the 9mm is definately easier to hit with than the .45acp. Most cops arn't gun enthusiasts and easier is better. Pat, I know a few cops(just acquaintances) and one of them is a gun nut and puts probably tens of thousands of rounds downrange a year, the others just look at a gun like a tool and practice only when they have to. If you don't mind my asking, what is your issued sidearm?
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,169 Likes: 1 |
Our department does not issue sidearms, we must supply our own. We are not limited to a single gun and round. My agency requires that you carry a double-action semi-auto Sig,Glock,HK, S&W, Walther or Springfield with at least 3.5" barrel in 9mm, .40 S&W or .45ACP.
My tool of choice is a Glock 23, .40 S&W.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,551 |
That's probably a good choice if they are going to utilize a single gun and round. The Glock is easier to operate, shoot and maitain and the 9mm is definately easier to hit with than the .45acp. Most cops arn't gun enthusiasts and easier is better. Pat, I know a few cops(just acquaintances) and one of them is a gun nut and puts probably tens of thousands of rounds downrange a year, the others just look at a gun like a tool and practice only when they have to. If you don't mind my asking, what is your issued sidearm? Pen. Sorry boss, couldn't resist. grin
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis I Burn While I See Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
Thanks, Pat. I really like the G23, by the way-but I just don't shoot the 40 as well as the 9mm and even 45 in the Glocks, for whatever reason. Still, I recently picked up a used G35-guess I am a slow learner.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker
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