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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Dave: I know we have them now and must do what needs to be done to control them;that is obvious. I just get tired of these people lying all the time to advance an anti-hunting agenda. My real feeling is that elk hunting in the Rockies will never be the same.These people are not done and I firmly believe that wolves are...." coming to a theater,near you..." in the not so distant future. There is talk of an introduction in Maine.....these people do not stop,and cannot be dealt with via conciliation and compromise;they need to be fought just like the gun control people(I view them as the same breed)....and stopped. It ain't just wolves.....it's the whole environmental movement and it is designed to deprive private property rights, wrest control from the local level and vest greater control of issues traditionally left to the states under the Constitution, to the Federal Gov't.which is already bloated and dysfunctional....but powerful....I am looking through a larger prism, if you know what I mean.... 
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Bob,
You guys on the forum keep up with it far better than I. This wolf thing is consuming a lot of energy from a lot of people. After reading your post I see why.
Seems like the RMEF getting involved on the level they are currently involved is real good. They bring more funding and a credible perspective that is respected everywhere except in the pro wolf circles.
Elk are thriving in KY and have moved across the WV border around Louisa, Ky. We have the largest deer/car issue in the country and it wouldn't surprise me to see wolves someday over here. Our DNR is pretty responsible and accessable. Hope we can keep them out.
Dave
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What comes to mind reading this thread is that it's the same crap over and over with these agenda-driven bleeding hearts;whether the issue is global warming,black-footed ferrets,sea turtles,or grazing on Federal lands.......if it comes from these special interest environmental groups,you can count on a distortion and manipulation of data designed to warp and obfuscate, the truth,a complete disregard for long term consequences,and a trashing of conventional management techniques.
They are trained to use the courts as a means to advance their agenda.They will tell you anything,saying for example that they would be in favor of proper wolf management once population levels are achieved;then they change their tune,go back to court,and raise the bar.
Like any left-wing group-based agenda,they advance their cause a step at a time,lying every step along the way,and many "reasonable people" fall for the trap they set.This is as true with wolf management as it is with Gun Control,or any other left-based social or economic policy;doomed to abject failure with a host of unforeseen consequences.This mind set gave us the Obama administration......I don't know how long it will take before we learn that if it comes from the "left",you can count on unmitigated disaster in the end.
There is a WHOLE lot of truth in this! I'll spend two weeks in May (have already spent 4 weeks) listening to much of what Bob just described. Lawsuits are a part of the system, I get that and don't begrudge folks/groups from exercising that option. However, much of what Bob posted is absolutely true for the groups I'm dealing with. One of which joined the lawsuits against state management of wolves and is now suing USFWS for not listing the sage grouse more completely.
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pointer,
Way too many in the legal profession with little or nothing to do. jburner has a good post under the Africa topic regarding small groups making it tough for everyone using the legal systems. The only difference is the topic. Elk or DG in Africa.
Dave
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Campfire 'Bwana
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.....All I've said is that it matters not at this point in the game.....
.....However, I would like to think that I'm not someone who is always convinced that I'm right and that all of my decisions were correct, no matter who or how many people tell me and show me and prove to me that I'm wrong.....
IMO, RMEF had plenty of years and people telling them they were wrong and were making a mistake and they chose to believe anti-hunters and radical environmentalists over people that knew what would happen. And now we're supposed to feel sorry for them because they were duped? You can feel sorry for them and say it was a big mistake all along, but I disagree. Well, I would disagree once again, I think it does matter. The wolf fanatics have not gotten everything they wanted, and this letter is one step in the process to make sure they don't. No one said anything about feeling sorry for the RMEF, and I'm not sure what you mean when you say that you disagree that it was a big mistake. If you don't believe it was a mistake, what do you believe? That it was intentional? Or what? This letter is in fact a very public admission from the top guy at RMEF that the organization did make a mistake, and that mistake was in taking the pro-wolf groups and government agencies at their word. David Allen is a breath of fresh air; cut the guy some slack, he's trying to do the right thing. Pretty bold move for a guy that's been in the chair for as short a time as he has. To me, Mr Allen represents a change in direction for RMEF. The past director seemed more like a representative of corporate America, and Mr. Allen seems like one of us. I don't believe that's a coincidence.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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amen!
i sent a note to rmef to let them know i like what i see.
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Smokepole,
That's fine. It doesn't bother me that you disagree. Everyone has their opinion and beliefs and you're obviously welcome to yours and I respect that. That you still believe that something can be done to change what the wolf reintroduction has done to our elk herds is admirable. I do agree with you that David Allen is trying to change the face/image of RMEF and he is a breath of fresh air. I suppose I was just disappointed that the leadership before him was able to do so much damage to what I thought the RMEF was. At one time I was a staunch supporter and member. I really have no beef with the current RMEF at all. My only lament is that they helped the cause of the wolf reintro years ago and I believe that the damage cannot be undone, at least not for a long, long time, even with a change of heart and support of RMEF. Just my opinion.
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Your'e right, the first year of sport hunting certainly suggests the states can turn up the heat and offer more licenses, longer seasons, etc. Of course, hunting wolves turns out not to be as easy as stepping out of the truck and smoking one........guys are going to have to hunt them buggers--and that may make it a more desirable trophy. I can see it now--20 years from now there will be $5000 guided wolf hunts, and locals will be touting the "economic value" of wolves.....  (that oughtta light some more guys up) Casey I don't think there IS much that Idaho can do to increase pressure on wolves from hunters -- other than hunts guided by professionals, which certainly WILL happen in the next year or two. We had more than 50,000 hunters with a tag in their pockets bumming around the back country this year. Most of those were just making sure they had a tag if the occasion should present itself, but many, many, good, diligent, capable predator hunters were out there for many days, and came up with bupkiss. Well over 6 month season, 50,000 tags, and we couldn't fill a 220 wolf quota. The first season hunting an animal that hadn't been hunted in more than 10 years? We've got a bigger problem than just getting the courts to let us have a season. JMO, Dutch.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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One thing I don't get. Everything I read indicates that that Idaho for example is overrun with wolves and whenever anyone goes hunting all they see are wolf tracks and the wolves are eating everyone's dogs and cattle and the wolves are hanging out on the golf courses and so on. If there are so dang many wolves all over the place why aren't hunters killing them left and right? Why couldn't those 50,000 hunters fill the quota?
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You've not been around the mountains of Central Idaho, have you?
Let's just say that roadhunting opportunities are limited. FWIW, Dutch.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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No, I haven't. That's why I asked the question. If I knew all about it I wouldn't have to ask. Sorry to offend.
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Like I said in BC in most areas we can shoot 3 wolves/hunter a year.There are a lot of areas where you can shoot as many as you want.Wolf numbers are still going up.Idaho hunters haven't got a hope of controlling wolf numbers. Monashee
Support the BC Wildlife Federation
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No, I haven't. That's why I asked the question. If I knew all about it I wouldn't have to ask. Sorry to offend.
No offense taken -- but you probably understand that we're a little touchy about people who have never tried to hike an Idaho mountain range telling us what the wolves will and won't do. I'd say even among the people that try to study it, 98% don't truly comprehend how rough and inaccessible and unmanageable that country is. FWIW, Dutch.
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Campfire Kahuna
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The wolves have really hammered the Sawtooth Nat. Recreation area, AKA the Stanley Basin. I've hunted it a lot and have taken a number of elk out of there. The last couple of years, I haven't even seen an elk. Deer have never been real numerous in there, but what few there were are gone, too. It has the highest wolf quota in the state, but they didn't fill it. When the elk and deer moved out, the wolves were obliged to follow so the numbers of even wolves aren't what they used to be. We hunted there this last fall, likely for the last time unless things reverse. We didn't see any animal larger than a grouse. Nothing.
The anti-hunters have won in that area. Their goal was to eliminate the game to stop hunting and they've done just that.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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While the S.S.S. policy is one that gets used quite often, I'm of the oppinion that its too late for it to make a dent. I would pay pretty good money for a couple of stout cow dogs with parvo. Just take them hiking where the wolves are and you pretty much eradicate the pack in that area.
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While the S.S.S. policy is one that gets used quite often, I'm of the oppinion that its too late for it to make a dent. I would pay pretty good money for a couple of stout cow dogs with parvo. Just take them hiking where the wolves are and you pretty much eradicate the pack in that area. You did read the letter that Defenders of Wildlife wrote didn't you? That's exactly the talk they need to keep the money rolling in. I'm sure they thank you for your response. Wolves will over shoot their prey base, then they have die offs, and battles from other packs that minimize their numbers. Those wolves in the Stanley basin, most likely are less in numbers. BTW, how liberal was the hunting season structures in those areas leeding up to high wolf numbers?
Last edited by 4100fps; 04/14/10.
I wanted to take a scalp, but the kill was not mine.
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Really doesn't matter how liberal the seasons are. It's a sad fact that the majority of the hunting public doesn't have the gumption to hunt wolves effectively. It will take disease to control wolf numbers before they eat themselves(and us) out of a sustainable prey base.
I'm sure you're not advocating that wolves just kill everything off then starve. That situation is bad for all involved, hunters, elk, wolves, and wolf lovers.
Even treating them like coyotes in non wilderness areas(Wyomings plan) wont work. I stand by my statement that biological weapons are the answer.
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We have the same problem here in Wisconsin. The population bar keeps getting moved higher. That's really the tip off of the whole pro-wolf agenda. We were told that 300 wolves were the right number for Wisc. Last number I heard was 900+. We are certain there are a lot more. If the wolf experts knew what they are talking about, and they recommended 300, and that was the maximum number, their credability vanishes as the bar gets raised. The Wolf and Bear situation is out of control in Wisconsin, as it is in the western states. Actually the guys in charge of Wolf introduction in Wisc, are for reducing their numbers. It's the pro-wolf anti-hunting groups that keep it in court.
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900 plus in wisconsin, i'll take that in a heartbeat in minnesota the count is at 3000 wolves wanna trade,, funny part outdoor news did a story wi gets more money for livestock damage then mn, reason being wi wolves are still endangred and mn is classified as threaten... somebody on this forum had a great idea boycot a season no money for the dnr that wuold get things moving a little faster....
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Amen to that, their is a LOT of talk about that here.
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