Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Options for 1910 1899 resto?

Greeting all,

New to the forum but have already learned a lot by lurking here. Some time ago I acquired a rather "Uniquely" (to put it mildly) butchered 1899. Not sure what (if anything) is original on the rifle, but the serial # is 99XXX, and the barrel is stamped "30-30." There appears to be a very faint, small "s" stamped on the front of the trigger guard, and a "5" stamped on one side of the front of the receiver. On the other side of the front of the receiver there appears to be a faint "R" or "B" stamped. The barrel is 20" long and quite tapered, and the bore is beyond rough. After thorough cleaning, I can see pitted rifling in the barrel, but a 30-06 cartridge slides into the muzzle all the way to the shoulder.

In addition to a cut / rewelded abortion of a lever modification, "Uniquely" modified / brazed brass sights, and hand-carved (using that phrase loosely) mahogany stocks (I'm not making this up), it appears to be missing the breech bolt stop & screw (looks like the old screw sheared off). The remainder of the internals appear to be in decent condition, and everything appears to function OK.

My guess is that the collector value in this rifle is gone, but I got it for next to nothing, and I kinda like it. I don't have a huge budget to do so, but would like to restore this rifle to shooter status. After much searching, I have located a replacement lever, and the rifle will likely get a new hot-tank bluing when completed. I have no idea what the original configuration of this rifle was (guessing a straight stock), but I will probably replace it with a pistol grip stock and plain forend.

My problem, it the barrel. A search for a replacement barrel has been completely fruitless, and I'm pretty sure that turning down and chambering a blank will put me well outside my budget. I've thought about reboring & rechambering the existing barrel, but am not sure what caliber might work with the existing internals, or if the cost will be too prohibitive. I would like to have something usable for deer at woods ranges, staying in the pressure range of the 30-30. 7-30 Waters would be ideal, but I am not sure what factory barrel would accomodate this chambering (.22 high-power?).

I would be fine keeping it a 30-30 if I could locate a decent barrel, but those seem to be somewhat rare now. 32 Winchester Special or even 35-30 might work, but bullet selection in .32 is sparse to say the least, and I'm not sure if there is enough meat on the existing barrel for .35 cal (I'd rather avoid having to form my own brass too).

Any ideas? I have found this place to be a fount of knowledge for this rifle and appreciate any assistance.

There was a 35 caliber wildcat for 30-30's, but don't know how well that would spool and feed through your magazine.

Maybe just try some cast loads? Might still shoot good out to 50 or 100 yards.

By the way, a lightweight, tapered 20" barrel sounds like it was originally an 1899H.

BTW, welcome to the campfire!

.32 Spl would probably be your best bet if the re-bore would clean up the pits. As you surmise, .35 may not work as the barrel may well not have enough meat. Nothing wrong with a .32 Spl and you might look into carefully trying 8MM bullets. They're only a few thousands larger and you might look at getting a swaging die to size them down to .32 if you don't want to try them at full dia.

The thing is, if the bore is as bad as you describe it might even be difficult to successfully rebore it to a larger caliber. There has to be some degree of uniformity throughout the bore for the reamer to pilot on or you won't be happy with the results. I've had a few barrels turned down by 'smiths over the years for that reason, but that's not to say yours is that bad. Only one way to find out, send it out to a reborer. Skidrow offered up good advise as far as caliber choice is concerned (although I'm really intrigued about a .35-.30/30 for cast bullet shooting).

Reboring would be much cheaper than barreling it from scratch.

How about having somebody reline it to .25-35 or back to .30-30? I have had good results with Boenke and Boenke (sp?) in Klamath Falls OR if they are still in business. They do all the 1894 Win calibers.

I would bail before you sink. just about nothin..

As far as reboring goes, if the muzzle accepts a loaded 30-06 neck (.336�-.339� diameter) clear to the shoulder it is unlikely that it will clean up at 35 caliber. By the time you remove enough material to clean up the pits, it will be over the .350� finish diameter of the 35 caliber. Anything smaller is out of the question. The 38-55 almost always cleans up rotten 30-30 barrels and it was a standard chambering in the 99 at one time. You might be able to find a correct (38-55) cartridge rotor for your rifle and ammo/components are readily available. This is a cartridge of modest pressure which is well suited to a vintage rifle such as yours. In my experience, your old barrel having inconsistent diameters will not cause a problem as long as the new, larger caliber cleans up the entire length of the barrel. Your barrel will need to measure at least .579� outside diameter at the muzzle to have adequate wall thickness when rebored to 38-55. Any sight dovetails would also need to be evaluated for remaining wall thickness under them. If reboring is not possible then relining or replacement are the options to consider.

Many older rifles have been back bored with the thinking it would shoot new again this may have happened here. (at least that is my thoughts) If the rifle does not have any sort of special bbl on her I would rebbl it. Lauren has good advise look at it fully before you throw bengies at it.

Unless you yourself are a competent gunsmith, and your time invested is 'free", I would carefully consider what you are about to do.

Everytime you take on a project such as the one you have just described, what you wind up with is a rifle that has half the value of your investment. If the gun was your great grandfather's...I understand where you are coming from.

If not...I would think long and hard about tying a rope to it and turning it into a boat anchor before you lose your azz on the thing.

Wow--thanks for all the quick replies! I knew this place wouldn't disappoint. I hadn't thought about trying resized cast bullets. I just got finished cleaning the bore yet again after an overnight soak with copper fouling remover, and now that it's a little cleaner, the bore looks even worse. There is SIGNIFICANT throat erosion and pitting, and I can only see rifling toward the last 2/3 of the barrel.

I hadn't put much thought into relining, as I don't know anyone who does it, and couldn't imagine that it would be cheap. I really appreciate the words of caution about getting too invested in this thing. BELIEVE ME, I completely understand how easy it is to get upside down in these projects, and have no desire to do so on this one. Though I have been a precision rifle guy for the last decade or two, old rifles still hold a special charm for me. My very first rifle was a 1903 Springfield with a ton of sentimental value that I got as a partially sporterized basket case when I was 15 years old. I took me a year to complete the rifle, and though it's got way more cash in it than it is worth, and a barrel that is now starting to get sloppy, it will be with me until I die.

There is absolutely no sentimental value in this project, so the budget will have to stay low. I plan to do all of the work myself, less the barrel machining. I really just pictured this as a cool little woods shooter / truck gun, with a little bit of history, but if it won't at least shoot minute of deer when completed--it is of no use to me. If it is not too cost prohibitive, perhaps relining the existing barrel may be the best option. I haven't been able to find anyone that has done it, but I think that a 99 in 7-30 Waters would make for a nice shooter, as long as the rotor will reliably feed the necked down 30-30 case.

I could not find any info on the smith in Klamath Falls, OR, but I'll start checking around to see if relining is possible--anyone have any idea what a ballpark cost might be? Any advice from someone who has had a barrel relined would be much appreciated. Also, any idea on where I might be able to get a new breech block stop and screw?

Reline, rebore, or replace. Don't even waste your time trying to make cast bullets work in a rough bore. It'll lead up like crazy and accuracy goes right out the window. (As an example, just rub a cast bullet on a piece of sandpaper or even a smooth file and see what happens. The same thing will happen in the rough bore. Been there, done that, too many times in my life to be convinced otherwise.)

Jacketed bullets on the other hand can sometimes turn in surprising results with nasty looking bores. I would at least shoot it to see what happens.

Try North Hills Gun Shop in Klamath Falls. They have been in K-Falls for over 20 yrs.Phone # 541-883-2935. They may know what happened with Boenke & Boenke.

Fred

Try finding one with a shiny bore. "Your spinning your wheels"...was a favorite saying of my Pop's. It fits.
For what it costs to spin a new bbl from a 30 cal blank...you could buy some NICE rifleage.