Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa How long do we have to hunt DG before it's gone?

Check - will notify the board.

So far, I have not seen anything that links organized crime with today's safari industry other than some Asian thugs financing ivory and rhino horn poaching.

Bill Quimby

The safari industry is not targeted for money laundering any more than the Chinese restaurants down the street from you that has been in business for many years but never seems to have any customers.

I hear CBS just tried to do another in a long string of hatchet jobs on hunters by linking a hunting convention to the crime of child molestoring (guilt by association) which is a big stretch but I did not see the show and cannot confirm that it was CBS or that is was true but its a natural given their track record.

But there are hunting tie ins. As I say Ian Parker's fingering of Margaret Kenyatte as head of ivory poaching when her father was leader of Kenya,and the continuing to live in Kenya without getting killed is remarkable. The guy has alot of courage.

Don't remember which network had it, but I saw the program you mentioned. The expose involved fishing tours on the Amazon, not hunting, and the convention was the Dallas Safari Club's.

I did not come away with the impression that the network had an agenda against hunting (or fishing), just the perverts who seek sex with children.

The show led me to believe the whistleblower was a fishing outfitter who was fed up with what his competitors were doing.

Bill Quimby

I didn't see it and am speculating so your interpretation is likely right.

I just don't trust CBS news or 60 Minutes at all and am suspicious of anything they do.

There. Spot on.

Jim, this is an interesting thread, if you don't mind, I'd like to divert just a bit. My Dad took me to colorado hunting the first time in 1952..I was ten years old [I had already killed a desert muledeer, several whitetails, and lots of varmints, doves, quail, and such] Southern colorado was awash in mule deer..and big ones too. We hunted a bit on a rancher friends place, but mostly on public land. We mostly just still hunted, only sitting down and watching when we got tired or just wanted to watch a saddle. It was not unusual to see ten or fifteen pretty good bucks a day and one or two of those would be really nice..30" plus..we killed lots of em' The only one we had mounted is a really pretty one that I picked out of a pile of horns in the garage...he's certainly not the biggest in spread, but well balanced...I don't remember his BC score, but the placque from SCI shows 210+ typical. I remember he was one of the biggest in body size...cut 227 lbs. of boneless meat.

Forty years later, Dad and I often talked...where did all those deer go?

Did we kill'em all...i.e., overhunting?
loss of winter pasture?
my rancher friends almost all believe that the increase in winter predation is a big factor..

I don't have a clue. But I can't help but wonder if african hunting may suffer the same fate as our mule deer..perhaps not for the same reasons....bear

One of the big factors in the very high mule deer populations of the 1950's and 60's was the war against predators going on then. Those were the years when government "hunters" used traps and poison to constantly kill off coyotes and mountain lions. The result was a real scarcity of predators. I started hunting in Montana in the 1960's and just seeing a coyote was almost rare, and mountain lion tracks were even rarer. Mountain lions were still considered varmints then, not game animals, and were shot in any numbers all year round.

That all changed in the 1970's, when mule deer populations dropped.

Too, there weren't many elk back in then. In fact I was talking to a friend about my age just yesterday. When we started hunting in Montana in the 1960's just seeing an elk was worthy of reporting. Today they are all over the place--and they do compete with mule deer to a certain extent.

Then there's the factor of winter range. A lot of former winter range is now subdivisions or even cities, especially in Colorado. But this effect is only slight compared to the crush of humans on African game. The population of many southern African countries has multiplied 10-fold since WWII, leaving less and less room for animals. This is exactly why at least 80% of African hunting is done on fenced game ranches in South Africa, and not in "wild" Africa.

I'm sorry, but I have to doubt 227 pounds of boned meat off one mule deer. My wife and I have weighed a lot of game animals at various stages--whole, field-dressed, boned--and generally the boned meat is about 1/3 the live weight of a hoofed animal. This means that mule deer would have weighed around 700 pounds. I would, however, believe 127 pounds of boned meat, as just last fall I killed a mule deer buck in Alberta that gave up 135 pounds of boned meat.

Mr. Barness, the deer certainly didn't weigh 700 lbs or 500lbs for that matter..we thought he might have weighed 400lbs or perhaps a bit more. I have a pretty good photo of my Dad standing beside him [the buck hanging in a tree] My Dad was 6'3" and 235lbs, the buck looks almost twice as big as Dad. I'm 6'1 and then weighed about 215, we were considered pretty stout guys and we had a hard time getting the buck in the back of the jeep. I respect your opinion, but the buck weighed what I stated. I might add, I have a few old photos of a "meat pole" with three of four big skinned bucks hanging, two inches or so of lard across their back...most people think they are elk. bear

Yeah, I know what a 400-pound mule deer buck looks like, having killed a couple. They are darned big! If you got 227 pounds of boned meat off one, more power to you.

I don't know how much time you have. But, I am 50, and figuring I should be able to hunt for 85% of my years on earth, I believe I have another 77 and 1/2 years left to hunt DG.

Mule Deer - no one really knows the Populations of African nations. For the most part population estimates are junk science.

Oh, I would agree that any precise number put on the population of any nation in southern Africa is mostla WAG, but then so is the U.S,. Census to a certain extent.

But I doubt that canybody can rationally argue that the population of most countries in southern Africa isn't a LOT higher than it was 50 years ago--and that more humans are the main reason that there's less of wild Africa now than there was back then. Human population is a much bigger threat to hunting truly wild Africa than, say, organized crime taking over the safari industry.

There is no question hunting & gun ownership are under attack globally. I'm actively involved in both issues with Safari Club & the NRA since I live in the DC area. JPK made a good post, but I work as a volunteer at outdoor & gun shows & rest assured there are many anti hunters in our area. You are spot on about the schools teaching anti hunting & anti gun agendas. Several of the programs I work with are attempting in a small way to reverse this trend. SCI has a program called the American Wilderness Leadership School. Chapters finance educators to attend conservation & wildlife training in Jackson Hole, Wyoming or Maine. Wrapped into the program is the virtue of hunting as a tool to manage wildlife. This has been highly successful & most chapters including ours have a waiting list. Another program Safari In A Box provides wildlife training material, skulls, pelts, teeth, tusks, etc to schools & libraries. Kids are eager to learn about wildlife & just need the opportunity. Our DC area chapter has furnished 25 Safari In A boxes & have a waiting list. Our current president has a doctoral degree & his wife is a local principal. They have put on wildlife education programs to school kids & received rare reviews. One popular question is why do they hunt. My wife & I also teach the Eddie Eagle kids gun safety program. So far our largest county will not allow the program since it was developed by the NRA. We have presented this program to hundreds of boy & girl scouts. The anti's outspend our pro hunting & pro gun organizations about 10-1. Despite the great programs membership in both organizations needs to increase. Only if those of us that enjoy hunting & owning guns become involved with future generations have the privilege.

I've not read or posted on this because it's gone off into never never land, I prefer to just eat the chocolate cake and let this pass me by.

However I have found an interesting part of this thread it the life extension capability to hunt DG well into your 127th year.


Siskiyous6 you say you're 50 now and you have another 77.5 years to hunt. So I need to know that secret potion you're guzzling cause I need to get me some! If you can hunt DG till you're 127.5 years old then I wanna join you on that trip!