Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting how much bc really matters?

The kinetic energy difference is like you say.
The 6.5x 284 ---142 SMK don't even go through a 3/16 inch steel plate at 700 yds.
The 338/378 ---300 SMK will go through it and the 15 inch poplar tree it hangs on.

Just for you .308 lovers. The .308 won't even go through the tree at point blank range. Go figure??

I will admit that a 338/378 or 338 rum or 338 whatever are impressive. But the Question I am gonna ask is why cant a 6.5x284 be just as accurate? If a guy can compensate for windage on a 300 gr smk why cant he do the same on a 142 gr smk? I keep reading "if you misread wind youre gonna miss by this much more." If you miss by 1 ft misreading the wind is it really any better than missing by 3 ft. To me it is still a miss or at best a marginal hit. To me it really doesnt matter if you can go through 3/16 plate and a tree. I dont have to shoot holes clear through plate because Ive never seen an elk or deer wearing armor.
Brock that 6.5 300 weatherby you mentioned sounds extremely impressive. I would love to see that. I am getting ready to have another rifle built and it will be a 6.5 stw. Ive heard of equal velocity to the weatherby only with cheaper brass. Should definately be fun to work up loads for.

The accuracy is not the problem. The 6.5 x 284 Savage 12 F rifle, I have will out shoot any of my other rifles.
Don't expect a bullet that can't traverse a 3/16 metal plate to kill an elk. (700 yds). They just disintegrate, yet the same design bullet going the same speed only heavier and longer will zip right through it and the 15 inch poplar tree. Why? I don't know I'm not an balistics engineer. The proof is in the pudding.

Volume I of P.O. Ackley�s classic �Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders.� Ackley noted that his experience proved that a .220 Swift was the most deadly caliber ever produced for deer and similar-sized game. His book was copyrighted in 1962, but his understanding of the compound effects of extreme velocity remains as true today as it was then.

In addition to some extensive shooting tests on animals, Ackley demonstrated his findings by firing two 48-grain bullets from a 220 Swift into half-inch armor plate on the front of a U.S. Army half-track. He also fired 100-grain bullets from a .270 Winchester and armor-piercing rounds from a government .30-06. All shots were fired from a distance of 30 feet.

The results were amazing. Both of the .220 Swift factory loads penetrated completely through the half-inch armor plate, leaving holes approximately 3/8 inch in diameter. The 100-grain .270 bullets managed no penetration whatsoever, leaving only shiny spots on the armor plate, and the .30-06 armor-piercing bullets made only shallow craters.

So should we give up our 30-06s and 270s for elk too? Start buying every 220 swift we can find?

I also see only shiny spots where the 6.5mm-142SMK hit the plate and a dent 38 of them after the day. The distance was actually 725 yds.
The .338-300 grain HPBT SMK leave only a copper ring around the holes, of which I can see rifling detail+ 15 inch poplar.
Exit holes at the tree aren't dramatic about Quarter coin size.
This has probably not much to do with animal hits. I see on another post and video of a fella shooting an Elk over 900 yds with the 6.5x284 exiting about 150 ft/sec faster than my reloads. Those loads he uses are very hot in my opinion. But I'm not going to laydown my 338/378 for anything else no matter what conclusions are hammered into my hairy head.

Im not saying give up the 338s. I am just saying other rounds can get the job done too. Maybe not as good but still gets it done just the same. Would I own your rifle? Yes. Would I like to shoot it? Definately. Am I gonna build one like it? No. Why? Because I dont need that much rifle to accomplish what I want to do. I would love to shoot with any of you guys who have been doin this forever. I would learn a ton. But of things I know for certain: I wont shoot berger bullets at elk. I like the idea of weight retention not fragments. I will not shoot in a 30 mile an hour wind at 500 yards. If the wind is blowing that hard I will be hunting but the wind will cover what noise I make. I will get closer. But on a nice calm day and the opportunity presents itself, and I cant get closer, Ill have the confidence to make the shot. Even if my 6.5 bullet will just bounce off of that deer or elk.

Not sure why you ask a question, then dispute all the replies that you have been given because you didn't agree, seems like you had already made up your mind made up.

Cant really say Ive disputed anything other than to say I wouldnt be shooting steel, competition or in bad wind. I never asked about any of those things. All I asked is how much you would notice windage and bullet drop based on small variations of ballistic coefficient. I never said I disagree with anything. Just simply stated what I will not do and have no intentions of doing. I stuck up for 6.5 because I believe it can do anything from an accuracy standpoint that a 338 can do. I quoted po ackley to make a point that I dont have to shoot through steel to kill game. And yes I knew what I was gonna use going in but didnt ask what I should be using either. Everything else evolved form there. You give me your opinion I will give you mine back. And I do apologize to everyone who thought I was disagreeing and being argumentative. I simply asked the question because I was curious about flight path of different bullets and how much they would vary based on very little difference in bc.

simply asked the question because I was curious about flight path of different bullets and how much they would vary based on very little difference in bc.

Guys you have totally missed what i was saying.. No i am not saying the 6.5 would hit harder then the 338!!! I mean cmon really?? What I was trying to say is that the 6.5 is very capable of bucking the wind as good as the 338 to a extent... which in fact it will and does.. Sure jack the speed up on the 338 and yes it will take over.. What i was trying to prove and obvisuly everyone misunderstood is that light bullets can and do buck the wind very well.. You DONT need the extra big bullets.. will they help?? Sure.. Will they do better in some instances yes.. Will it make me more confident?? HECK NO!!! @ 700yds im still over 1600ft.lbs of energy wich is more then enough to take a deer, elk or just about whatever walks... for that matter im still over 1000ftlbs @ 1k..which is still enough.. Bottom line is dead is dead you didnt kill it any more dead with a BIG bullet then i did with a light one.. The one thing you gain is if you make a bad shot that extra weight would help..

Let me ask this how many ft.lbs of energy do you really need to bring down a elk or a deer?? how many elk have been taken with the 357mag??? I am sure plenty have been there only what 1100ftlbs @ the muzzle?? Bullet placement is the key weather it be long or short..

What the hell does FPE has to do with terminal performance?? How much momentum is left at distance when the bullet impacts would have more realevance

which the 6.5 still has plenty of at that range to kill efficently... the only thing the 338 has at 338/378 speeds is more "power" and thats it.. It is more "forgiving" on not so great shots.. Its not more accurate , it doesnt buck the wind any better, its not flatter.. all inside 1k.. If it was it would be used in 1k matches and not the 6br's or the 6.5x284's. Which was my orignal point to begin with.. I have drop penty of game with the 6.5x300weatherby AI's alot farther then 700yds 1 being a whitetail at 1250 have killed groudhogs out to 1500.. But to get back on the original topic.. Your not going to gain much with slight changes in bc.. stick with what you like.. if you feel you need to shoot the heavys shootem.. If you like shooting the light and fast shootem.. Just be sure your shots are safe and well placed no matter what your shooting at..

There is so much wrong with this post I dont know where to start... guess I will sit back and watch the replies from those already involved in this thread
RC

Don't forget longer barrel life for the 338 Lapua, Edge, etc.

The .338 Allen has a huge advantage on wind drift and drop, shooting the 300Gr SMK at 3400. Going to be even better when Berger gets there 300Gr bullet out.

Somehow I knew this thread would go from comparing 2 bullets from a 1/4 bore closely matched in BC and weight to comparing a 6.5 to a 338.

Since we are down that road already the 6.5 is not even in the same league as a 338 in long range hunting. To try and make an argument otherwise is just plain ridiculous.

In 1982 a 338/378 (416)based cartridge did win a 1000 yd competition, thus began the thirst for the Lapua 338. The American basically invented it, but got Lapua building ammo for them. The Americans dropped it and Lapua left holding the bag pursued it and today we have the improved 416 case being used on the Lapua. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is from memory only.

Another interesting detail is that Lapua had a boattail hollow point in 1960. They seem to be ahead on everything.

What was the Berger you used, that didnt kill up to par @ that close range??? I'm with that guy up their, 7mm 180gr Berger hunting VLD.... With a G7 BC of 0.337..

Bryan Litz, Ballistician for Berger Bullets, has authored an excellent article on bullet design, What�s Wrong With .30 Caliber?. This story originally appeared in Precision Shooting magazine, and now can be read on LongRangeHunting.com.

In this article, Bryan analyzes the design of long-range bullets, from .22 to .30 caliber. He notes that while 30-caliber bullets can have very high ballistic coefficients, 30-caliber bullets must be very heavy to match the BCs of the 6.5mm and 7mm projectiles. As the chart below shows, it takes a 240gr 30-caliber bullet to match the G7 BC of a 180gr 7mm VLD. But most 30-caliber shooters don�t use those ultra-heavy projectiles because the recoil is excessive and because it takes a monster cartridge burning lots of powder to drive 240-grainers to optimal velocities. Litz notes: �Heavy recoiling rifles are harder to shoot accurately. Even if a shooter overcomes the mental aspect of heavy recoil, the �system� is more sensitive to minor imperfections in shot execution. This may be another reason that drives .30 cal shooters down to the �middleweight� 190-grain class bullets instead of the proportionally heavy 220-240 grain bullets.�


Litz concludes that the heavy 7mm bullets are a better choice than the biggest 30-calibers (except in unlimited weight �heavy guns� where recoil is not a factor.) Bryan writes: �Even a moderate 7mm chambering is capable of delivering 2800 to 3000 fps with the heavy 7mm bullets, much faster with magnums. The heaviest .30 cal bullet requires a big magnum just to get to 2800 fps. So the first problem is: you can�t get the heavy .30 cal bullets going as fast as the heavy 7mm bullets! Even if you could get the same muzzle velocities from the heavy .30 cal bullets, it would take much more powder to do it, barrel life would suffer, and you�ve only achieved parity with the 7mm. The various negative effects of the incredible recoil are really just the �nail in the coffin� for the heavy .30 caliber bullets.�

New Ballistics Book from Bryan Litz
If you are interested in learning more about bullet design and ballistics, Bryan Litz has authored a brand new book, Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting. This new resource includes experimentally-measured Ballistic Coefficient (BC) data for over 175 long range bullets of various makes.