Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Well, the wolves are winning . . .

I don't know why anyone would think this isn't the beginning of the end. When an outfitter is leading the charge to stop elk hunting because numbers are so low, I think we can determine this is a serious situation. Unless wolves are quickly reined in, I don't know why we can't expect this to happen all over the state.

Citizens Asking State to Halt Elk Hunt

He's got the right idea, for several reasons. Not the least of which is to demonstrate exactly what is going on with the current wolf population, so the truth comes out.

Dennis

It was also part of the idea behind wolf introduction, along with private property control, access issues, etc.

I feel sorry for our kids. Less than 10 years ago gun writers were calling it the "golden age of elk hunting". Every age has to come to an end at some time but this was premature.


ddj

Generally I would say that if the state was manageing the herd for a 10 bulls to 100 cows ratio they left themselves no wiggleroom for changes to the herd numbers.(I think BC tries for 30 or 40 bulls to 100 cows.) I don't see where wolves are blamed other than the reference to "many blame the high predation including wolves." It could easily be other factors or a combination of such as lack of forest fires, overgrazing, over hunting or poor overwinter conditions.
Never the less, I would leave management to the State. If outfitters managed my hunting opportunities there would be none for me or any other resident hunters.

What you fellas don't know about HD 250 is just 5 years ago it was sitting at a observed elk population of 1900. That number was just 100 shy of the objective set by the Elk Working group.

In 2005 the State liberalized the hunting season to include either sex hunting, youth either sex, and handicap either sex.
In a 5 year time span over 5600 elk left the upper Bitter root in the back of vehicles. We over harvested the elk. We didn't get the breaks applied until last year. Still kids and handicapped killed around 70 cow elk in that district last year. This year we finally got those extra tags done away with. The calves are the problem now. We have enough elk that if we could get the calves to live through the first year they would rebound.
There's no question that wolves are a big part of the problem there and in the rest of the areas that are below objective levels. We have been far to conservative on the other predators even when we could do nothing to the wolf population.

It's not just wolves. We use to take 60 to 70 cats a year in the Bitterroot. We haven't taken more than that, in the 11 years sense. We have worked hard to promote more cat tags, as well as opening the bear season longer there. The Dept. looks to increase the wolf quota there, and in a week or so we'll see.

I took these pictures in that HD over a dead moose. The pictures were over a 9 day period.






[img] http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u246/shoots-straight/DSC_0023.jpg[/img]
The year says 2006 because I never changed it.

There are so many ideas I would have had with that moose carcass other than putting up a camera.


ddj

Here is some more cute, cuddly wolf photos.

Tom

I see these pictures and I hope we can get the predator friendly hunters such as 4100 and dpole in check as much as the wolves!


ddj

The loudmouth minority speaks again.

Just wait...we will see.

ddj

ddj,

How do you explain the drop in elk numbers in the breaks area of Montana in the 400 and 600 series units?

There are no wolves there and elk are held at ridiculously low levels via gross over-hunting.

You all butt sore about that too...or is it just wolves that sore you up?

Also, just as 4100 said...when 5600 elk left the 'root in a 5 year span...you're saying thats not an impact? Let me also say that not all the elk killed in the 'root were checked through the Darby Check station either. I'd bet money that well over 7K were killed there in the 5 year period.

You're very poorly informed about the issue regarding elk in MT if you believe its just a wolf problem...its a lion problem, an over-hunting problem, a bear problem, and a legislative problem as well. Combine that with a State Legislature that is trying to kill even MORE elk via following a poor Elk Management Plan...theres your problem.

Keep your head in the sand though...its all just wolves.

But, dont worry guys like 4100 who know what they are talking about will take care of the REAL problems...and also make sure that wolves are kept in check as well.

Just like with any group, hunters are no exception...5% do 95% of the work....the rest just like to talk.

There aren't?

I wanna see proof of these 5600 elk that left the Root in the back of a truck in a 5 year span. mtmuley

Try doing some research on your own.

A classic 95%er...

Hey Buzz, I LIVE and HUNT here in the Bitteroot. It is comprised of 4 hunting districts, 270, 261, 240 and 250. 250 has been going downhill for the past half dozen years, 240 is a tough hunt and a low percentage of the Valley's elk are killed there. That leaves 270 and 261. So I bet out of the 1120 elk killed yearly in the Root (I took the 5600 and divided it by 5 you see), THE MAJORITY come from the areas on the East side. Since you DON"T live here, those areas are 261 and 270. IF every cow tag were filled, AND all bulls killed were counted, (and I don't believe specific harvest numbers are available, but you seem to know) I SERIOUSLY doubt almost 6000 elk were killed here in the Bitteroot Valley over a 5 year period. Someone prove me wrong. mtmuley

Buzz,

I know that the Easter Storm in 2006 was hard on all the game. Also, mismanagement has always been a problem for our game populations and will continue to be. As our populations of game continue to fall for various reasons, how do you think the Game departments will continue their funding? They will increase tag costs and will decrease tags numbers as slow as possible. They will only decrease tags after the populations have suffered.

That brings me to the wolf problem. Wolves were an added detrimental factor our game populations didn't need. Now we have wolves and habitat loss and population mismanagement and the list goes on. Wolves were a factor we could have limited.


ddj

You know we are a "family" of sorts here related by interests in hunting, shooting, and most things related including elk and all that affects them which is many factors as we all know and has been pointed out. There are bound to be differences in opinion but that doesn't require sarcasm or derogatory point, counter-point comments and responses which seems to happen quickly here. Give the facts or correction in a kind and civil manner; it 's much easier swallowed.

Thanks George.


ddj

mtmuley,

I sent you a PM. If you need to, I'll meet you some where and bring the data. I'm only talking about the southern end of the valley.

The trend counts were still on the rise until 2005. That's when we went to either sex seasons. Kids and handicap could kill cows ets. In one weekend 300 cows were checked through from 270 alone during 2005. That was just cows. I can prove my info. Name a time and place.

The courtesy issue goes both ways.