Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Just ordered this year's project gun

Just placed my order for one of Jim Chambers English Sporting Rifles. Nothing fancy - .58 cal with the plain English walnut stock.

Now all I have to do is get thru the summer family projects - painting one daughters house, moving another kid, helping the eldest with a couple of projects, building my new shop and finishing off the patio project my wife started last year.

But I got a new rifle!!

Johnny $

Those are fantastic guns. Getting it built is another question.

Toad,
I have heard they are nice and they take mucho work. A friend has built two of Chambers rifle and they are beautiful - if mine turns out half as good - i.e. I don't have to paint it flat black with a rattle can to cover up the flaws - I will be very happy!

Johnny $

I've been salivating over Chambers' Haines for a long while now. I'm finishing up a full blown Hawken right now, but as soon as it's done, I'm calling Jim. Have fun with the build...it'll be a great piece once you're done.

Whip,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I may chicken out and see if I can get Doc Carlson to finish it for me...
That Haines is an elegant little rifle! The difference between that and your big Hawken will be noticable to say the least. What caliber are you going with? I couldn't make up my mind on the Gent's rifle so I called Jason at Rice Barrels and he strongly suggested the .58. Said the deer and hogs, hit with it, just couldn't lie down and die fast enough.

Johnny $

Johnny $,

This has to be one of the best hunting rifle kits.

But if you need some help to finish it, I will be Happy to volunteer! My work is a little slow, it may take 20 years to finish,........if I hurry!

Enjoy!

My Hawken is in 54 and am thinking the Haines would do nicely in that cal as well. I'm a PRB guy and the 54 is righteous and balanced in velocity and punch to my way of thinking. A 58 might be better medicine for elk though, as where I'm hunting it's thick and shots are relatively short propositions. I'll have to give that some consideration now...

BS2 -- Thank you for the kind offer! 20 years - My wife made a remark of the same nature saying that I should get busy asap so the rifle would be done in time for my grandson to inherit it -- he is still in diapers. She is just saying this because she knows me and she is a mean old woman sometimes.

Whip -- don't you hate when that happens! I was thinking that the .54 would be the checker and then I started second guessing myself and I called Jason at Rice Barrels. He has a Chambers Jaeger in .58 and loves it. He is going after elkers this fall and based upon the terminal effects of the .58 that is what he is taking. We chase elk in the north central part of CO and while we see elk at long ranges occasionally, I can't think of a single elk we have shot in the last 10 seasons that was over 200 yards -- most are 50 to 100. A Haines in .58 would seem just about perfect for that!

Johnny $

a 58 will do well .
Hershel rifle is a 54 and I have never found it lacking for elk here in Idaho .
Also like you I would have to say my shots average between 35-75 yards .

Now a couple years ago I took a cow elk at about 35 yards with my 62 cal smooth bore .
It flat laid her out
.
I just finished up a Erickson in 54 cal for a fella .
on that rifle i use a 39 inch swamped barrel . thuse for a plains rifle she came out very well ballanced and light

I also have a Hudson valley fowler with a 52 inch barrel setting here as well as an Hains rifle waiting to get going .
The Hains will be mounted with all Damascus hardware . The barrel is a 50 cal barrel with round bottom rifling and was made by Getz back in early 1980�s .

As to jim chambers assemblies. You should have little to no issues building it . Jim makes a wonderful product that�s very easy to build .

be sure to post photos as you build .

Johnny$--You definitely did the right thing going with a 58. My 58 Hawken by Harold Ikerd just flat puts the hurt on whatever you shoot with it. I have taken more deer and hogs than I remember and two black bears with mine and it puts them on the ground RIGHT NOW. I have never shot an elk myself, but watched a buddy nail one at 135 yards with his 58 and it took two steps and went down on a good behind the shoulder hit.

We never shoot anything but patched round balls in front of 100 to 130 grains of 2f, depending on what we are hunting. My very best advice to you is to STOP WHATEVER ELSE YOU ARE DOING, and BUILD THE RIFLE--NOW. You won't know how you got along without it.

Haines?? As in Isaac Haines?? A Lancaster?? That is one ELEGANT rifle!! You are gonna LUV that rifle1

Captchee, I can't imagine a 52" barrel for a shoulder gun. That must be like looking down a power pole. I'm sure that you will make it as balanced and graceful as possible - but - I grew up shooting a 12ga. Stevens single barrel with a 38" barrel... dropping down to a 30" Win. Model 97 was like shooting a trench gun. I'll make you a deal - you post some pics of that fowler and I'll "try" to post some pic of my project....?

sharpsguy: Bill, your endorsement of my selection means a great deal to me! I'm getting a raft of static from my "buddies" (in-line shooters all) about a big bore rock lock. One of them is pretty sure that my next step in de-evolution is a rock tied to a stick. I can tell you one thing for certain; the front sight is going to be made from a highly polished copper penny. The rear sight is more of a question right now. I think I'm going with a 1-2 leaf express. I just want to keep it as low as possible. Any ideas?

Thanks to everybody for their help!

Johnny $

Johnny$--I actually have two really good traditional Hawkens, both percussion. One is the 58, the other is a 62. Both have 1-72 twists, and of course, I only shoot patched round balls.

The 58 kills better, in my experience. I equip my rifles with a very low blade in front, made from a copper penny. The rear sight is a traditional Hawken buckhorn set low in a dovetail and set with a punch so it will not move. Stay away from a 2 leaf sight. A 58 Hawken will shoot flat enough that you can reach 200 yards if you load it and sight it properly. Here's how.

The gun is sighted so that it is 5 inches high at 50 yards. This puts it 3 inches high at 100, and dead on at 125. It is about 6 inches low at 150 and 14 inches low at 200.

Here is where it gets interesting. Loaded with 120 grains of 2f, if I hold on a deer's spine over the front leg at 200 yards, the ball will hit him in the heart. I hold ON the hair, not over the deer. This load gives 1850 fps, and lets me reach 200 yards if I need it. The old timers zeroed their Hawkens to be on at 125 yards, and this is the reason. Simply put, anything out to 100 yards, you simply hold to shoot it in the heart. From 125 to 175 you hold in the top third of the animal, and at 200 you hold on the spine.

To make this work, you have to have a 58 or a 62, as the lighter balls don't hold up at distance and don't hit as hard at extended range. You also need to shoot 120 or 130 grains of powder to do this. 90 grains won't give you the trajectory you need for reliable accuracy beyond about 150 yards.

From 35 to 125 yards, this technique is absolute poison, and the way the old timers that made their living on the plains loaded and used their rifles.

will do . it will be a while though as its down the line of pieces i have to get done .
its my own personal smoothbore . thus customers come first .

as a note on the shouldering . 52 inchies is the shortest barrel i have found documented on this perticular fowler . avrage seems to me around the 65 inch barrel leaght .

right now its shoulders well . while it is going to be somewhat muzzle heavy . it apears to be rock solid in the hold

Interesting about the Hudson Valley Fowler Cap. There are quite a few very very old fowlers around here. Most are still in families as legacies. The real long barreled ones like you have are Dutch guns for the lion's share. Some are matchlocks,some are flinters. I am about as far from an expert on flinters one is going to get, but even I can see what it means to say "primitive" flinters. The guns I have seen for the most part are not for public viewing. I had an odd good fortune that enabled me to view them. Yours must be fun to play with.

Now that there is some righteous info and it looks like I'll have to try a 58 with the Haines, Thanks!

Well, the brown truck just dropped off a package. At first glance, everything seems to be very high quality and the inletting seems to be excellent. Now I want to play hookey and start wrenching on it.

sharpsguy: That makes way too much sense. There must be something I can do to make it more complicated so I can find some kind of high tech, complicated solution...??

Thanks to everybody for their input!

Johnny $