Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 7mm Mag for Africa PG?

I don't see much on using the 7mm mag for PG. I have a 375 H&H and 7 mag switch barrel Rem. I think the 375 a little much for most of the smaller stuff and have the 7 shooting 150 gr Swifts in under 1" at 200 yds, So may just take it insted.
Thoughts!

I have used a 7 rem mag for years on all the species in africa,from eland bulls to springbuck,works very well,i would use the 375 on the smaller guys with a solid ,small whole on exit,
take both barrels and have fun ,

If you shoot a steenbok or Duiker with the 375 aim for the last rib. It will almost cut the body in half or very close. Shooting any closer to the shoulder will often explode the entire shoulder and neck with bone shrapnel. This is the same with any cartridge shooting over about 2500fps. The faster the bullet the greater the damage. Velocity has a far greater effect then bullet size on this.

Does not matter what kind of bullet you use, the velocity is what explodes tissue as the flesh tries to escape the bullets energy path the skin is not strong enough to contain the tissue expansion. For those doubting this if you really believe that a 270 grain bullet is going to mushroom on a Steenbok then you need better bullets!

Anything impala size or bigger just use the 375HH for everything. Blood trails are excellent and tracking very short. When hunting in the bush, finding game can become time consuming. You don't wanna waste a second more then needed to find your game. You wanna be hunting.

The 375HH is a classic African cartridge for good reason. Shooting 270 grain bullets will crumple everything you hit solid, and allow for much better tracking on game hit less then perfect. Much of the game you shoot in Africa is quartering away. That bigger heavier bullet will be a huge advantage to take game at any angle or distance.

The 7mm is a very powerful cartridge, but is greatly lacking on blood trails. It's not often noticed in the USA as almost all game in the USA is living as single animals. In Africa many are in herds. Shooting an animal in a herd brings on many other issues. One the mentality of the herd instinct. A blue wildebeest or Zebra will run a long way dead on it's feet to stay with the herd. A kudu will jump weave and run a short way and then settle down to figure out what is wrong. There is will lay down or fall. It has no "friends and family" to keep up with. Much like a whitetail in the USA.

Add to this the dust kicked up from 20-50 animals running over the meager blood drops from a 7mm hole and you're going to have your work cut out in the tracking. With a 375HH and 270 grain TSX or A frames your going to have the perfect plains rifle. No need to even consider the 7mm in my opinion.

jj,
glad to see you posting again......

I agree with drew69. I've taken every size class of African antelope from eland to grysbok with a 7 mm Remington Magnum using 175 grain Nosler Partition bullets and have never felt under-gunned.

However, I'll admit to the world that I am sensitive to recoil and cannot shoot a .375 as well as I can shoot lighter calibers. If you can, more power to you.

Bill Quimby

+1 for 7mm mag

"The 7mm is a very powerful cartridge, but is greatly lacking on blood trails. It's not often noticed in the USA as almost all game in the USA is living as single animals. In Africa many are in herds. Shooting an animal in a herd brings on many other issues. One the mentality of the herd instinct. A blue wildebeest or Zebra will run a long way dead on it's feet to stay with the herd. A kudu will jump weave and run a short way and then settle down to figure out what is wrong. There is will lay down or fall. It has no "friends and family" to keep up with. Much like a whitetail in the USA."

This is an excellent and often neglected point that JJHack is making....and as he says in his post the 7mm does not leave big blood trails, again very true! I have used both the 7mmRM and the 7mmSTW a couple of times in Africa and have found this to be the case. Even shooting small game with a 7mm mag will make you aim for the last rib due to bone fragments.

I would just take the 375 and smack everything fair dinkum!

If you shoot a .375 as accurately as you do a lighter caliber, by all means use the .375. However, the limit of comfortable and consistently accurate shooting in the field for me is a .300 Win Mag. With proper placement of a 7 mm Rem Mag bullet, there's no need to follow a blood trail.

Bill Quimby

That may be the case for you Bill, but with well over 400 hunters under my belt, each shooting 6-15 animals with every cartridge and bullet combination imaginable I have seen much different results with a fair amount of resolution to this! If each hunter has taken 10 animals on average and there has been over 400. well now that is some resolution! 4000 plus big game shot gives some experience and will show what works well and what might not be so good.

SUB .308 diameter is not a prudent choice when the sportsman has a cartridge that does give sufficient follow up evidence. Doing this with people from all walks of life and every level of experience changes the views and opinions of professionals hunters.

I hunted with a CIA sniper that used a 7mm mag. In his hands it was absolutely the magic wand of death. Unfortunately few hunters have his skills. Many struggle even with bigger bore cartridges. There is a lot to be said about the skill of the guy behind the trigger. PH's don't get to pick and choose the hunters they have, so the recommendations for hunting the bush usually start at .308 diameter.

If hunting open grassy habitat the shots are longer and the tracking is by a large margin much easier. Not so in the thick bush-veldt of the Northern Provinces and Natal

I would shoot what you shoot best. I'd rather see you drive a good 7mm bullet where it needs to go than making poor shots with a bigger gun. I hunted almost exclusively with a 7 mag loaded with 175-grain Bear Claws for my first couple of seasons. I whacked everything from steenbok to eland with that combo and never had a problem, though I must admit nothing I ever shot with it went far enough to make tracking an issue.To tell you the truth, it's really hard to beat the penetration of those heavy-for-caliber 175-grain 7mms.

I agree with JJack, as I took my 7mm rem mag to hunt plains game and it was fine with the smaller animals, but on the bigger game (Zebra, Waterbuck, Kudu and Gemsbok and Wildebeast), a .338 win mag was what was recommended and used very successfully, (after a few difficult tracking experiences) as the 160 Nosler partitions did NOT perform due to the thick hide and muscle mass of the larger animals!!! The whitetail behavior difference is very valid as I experienced the exact same thing!!! Bring a .30 caliber.... Paul

Don't mistake my comments as if I'm claiming you must have a 375HH and the 7mm is worthless. The original post was a question regarding only these two and I have only addressed these two.

The loaners we use are 30/06 with a 165 grain bullet. They are used on every species of PG including eland. The 30/06 has just about 20% greater surface area then the 7mm. This is a significant amount! 1/5th greater hole size is nothing to sneeze at. It's not just a mathematical amount, it's been seen many times over in actual practice.

The 7mm mag is not a bad cartridge, just not in the same league at the 375HH. If the hunter who posted this has both, the 375HH is the winner hands down on every PG animal he will shoot. The 7MM mag is not a better choice for smaller game. It will blow them to bits with every bit as much authority as any other HV cartridge.

The original question/statement was that he would use the 7mm on the smaller stuff. Why? less damage? That is not a valid statement. The velocity will damage the tissue more then the bullet size. If you shoot both equally well the 375HH is the clear choice. If you shoot the 7mm better then that is a good choice.

I've shot a number of 7mm, 300mag, and 338's that have a much more harsh recoil then the typical 375HH. My 375HH is quite easy to shoot. I've had a lady hunter shoot a white Rhino with it. She was not 110 lbs and petite at about 5'3" tall. It's not the cartridge, but the overall design of the rifle that will more likely determine the felt recoil.

None of this was intended to be argumentative, but rather just banter about shared experience and the thoughts and opinions we all have on this topic. The poster asked for opinion, it's a great idea for us all to share ours with him.

With the caveat stated that I have never been to Africa,this is interesting....how big are these animals?

I'm curious about the lack of performance from the 160 Partition,what they did and did not do....

Kinda curious about that too Bob..theres very little in PG I wouldn't use that bullet on...

Ingwe

ingwe, I don't even belong posting on this thread,never having been there....but I've used that bullet a lot here(generally from a 7mag started at 3100 fps),and seen it used more,generally on elk and always large bulls.I've never seen one recovered.

I did see two problem animals, a spike bull,that got away and a 6x6 that went aways but was soon found. The spike was found 2-3 days later.Both were gut shot.As another example I watched a big bull shot with the 160 Partition at about 500 yards;chest hit,it died on the spot,the bullet exiting.

Commenting in general,I can understand where JJ is coming from with blood trails in those dry,dusty conditions and the difficulty of sorting out all those tracks,and the 30/06 demonstrating better blood trails with certain bullets.That sort of experience based on 4000 animals has tremendous credibility.

I have seen that from 30 calibers;I have seen it from 338's and 340's but I gotta be honest....I could never see any difference between 30's and 338's when it came to blood trails at all.375's easily trump both when it comes to big holes IMHO.

A friend sends various 270 bullets over to his professional hunter friends in Africa for them to "test";lately, I've been copied on their email correspondence where they discuss results.They use them in the 270 Winchester.

This is interesting to me;#1 bullet in their opinion is the 130 TTSX because it kills well,penetrates deeply, and exits frequently,which they like.A very close 2nd is the 130 Swift Aframe which they find excellent as well,but it does not exit as frequently as the TTSX. They think the 130 AB absolutely sucks....too much fragmenting,lousy penetration. They said don't send any more.

This generally corresponds closely with what JJ has said on here,overall.

One of these same pro's, the senior member commented to me in a phone call about the 338's. He says lots of guys bring them; the overwhelming majority cannot shoot them well at all.This is what I have seen myself....the recoil issue is badly underestimated by many.Contrary to slip stick theory,elk sized stuff does not die quicker if badly hit by 338 caliber rifles.

I was talking to a PH friend of mine from Namibia last week and he was saying how much more emphatic a killer the 338 is over even a 300 magnum, PROVIDED the client can handle the recoil..he now personally uses a 338WM to shoot PG instead of his well used 300WM......

And the PH's opinions regarding AB's that Bob mentioned were almost exactly mirrored by Mike's comments.

His summation was; whatever the client shoots well, with the heaviest for calibre premium bullet always!

To avoid the harsh 338 recoil a 35 Whelen or 350 Rem Mag either one would be a useful replacement. The more I think of it a 35 Whelen would make a very good all around PG rifle. Especially when a tracking blood trail is needed.

Good suggestion, the 35 Whelen, come to think of it.

And very similar ballistics to the 9.3X62.

Good post Bob...
In a nutshell my experience on PG pretty much is the same...The TSX is excellent, the Swift A Frame is excellent, and I wouldnt hesitate ( and havent hesitated..) to use a heavy Nosler PT on anything...have killed literal tons of game with the 175 NPT in a 7x57...


Ingwe

Ingwe:reliable people here and elsewhere tell me African stuff is not immune to the charms of those boolits....purely anecdotal of course and not invented here