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Fin Agaard stated in his book on African cartrridges that he saw more one shot kills with the .270 Winchester than any other. I know when I have compared the 7x57 to the .270 I would favor the 7x57 for the heavier bullets and penetration I noted, though I personally never felt the heaviest weights were necessary.
Also noted that the NP does not penetrate as much as the homogenous bullets and that bullet weight was not necesarily a factor of benefit which is why I am not warm to paper ballistics or references such as SD when coaligned with expanding bullets.
What I did find is that 140 X's outpenetrated 160 Failsafe's which I have recovered. By the way, don't discount the miriad of experience on the fire when to this point, I don't recall a single hunter ever stopping a 140gn TSX in the 7X57 and similar reports also abound for the guys using 7-08's loaded with 120gn TSX's.
It is a very interesting conversation but in the end, I believe it is a bullet discussion and not a cartridge discussion.
JW
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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LtDan
I agree that familiarity with the rifle is critical. I also agree that the larger calibre allows more bleeding. I am not infected with magnumitis, but do find heavy large diameter bullets do their job well. Often slow big bullets give kills more like archery where the animal runs fifty or seventy five yards before going down. My experience is with heavy for calibre in muzzle loader. A 540 gr lead bullet at 1300 ft/sec penetrates like crazy, but only drops them in their tracks with a central nervous system hit. That is not Africa based, but North American.
Randy
Praise the Lord for full Salvation
Christ Still lives upon the throne
And I know the blood still cleansess
Deeper than the sin has gone
Lester Roloff
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PH's opinions on rifles that ***they**** use are not always the same as what they want to see clients with unknown skills use.
Also a client with 7-10 hunting days needs to crumple... collect ..... and hunt. Not search for game. I've had many hunters use the 7mag, lots of successful hunters too. However on average (for us) the smaller dia. ( sub .284) bullets cause more long tracking work then .308 and bigger do.
It's a fine killer, just not a great evidence provider
www.huntingadventures.netAre you living your life, or just paying bills until you die? When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
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PH's opinions on rifles that ***they**** use are not always the same as what they want to see clients with unknown skills use.
Also a client with 7-10 hunting days needs to crumple... collect ..... and hunt. Not search for game. I've had many hunters use the 7mag, lots of successful hunters too. However on average (for us) the smaller dia. ( sub .284) bullets cause more long tracking work then .308 and bigger do.
It's a fine killer, just not a great evidence provider I can buy that argument, for sure. That's what I was trying to convey, except with relation to the 7mm-08 that I used. I felt comfortable enough with my ability to place my shots that I truthfully didn't consider the blood trail/tracking implications. In hindsight, had I not made a solid kill shot and lost sight of the animal an any point, things could've turned out badly. The only animal that left a lot of blood behind was my impala and most of that came from the nostrils due to a damned near perfectly centered double-lung hit. The other broadside hits...well, there just wasn't much blood to speak of.
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I'm going to Namibia in October, Kudu will be biggest. The PH won't let me shoot at Kudu or Gemsbok with a 7mm, he likes heavier bullets so I'm taking a 9.3. Should do the job.
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"Also a client with 7-10 hunting days needs to crumple... collect ..... and hunt. Not search for game. I've had many hunters use the 7mag, lots of successful hunters too. However on average (for us) the smaller dia. ( sub .284) bullets cause more long tracking work then .308 and bigger do.
It's a fine killer, just not a great evidence provider"
That last line says it all!!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It is a very interesting conversation but in the end, I believe it is a bullet discussion and not a cartridge discussion.
JW
Excellent point and equally as applicable here as in Africa, I suspect.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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It is a very interesting conversation but in the end, I believe it is a bullet discussion and not a cartridge discussion.
JW Well, it is and it isn't: as far as wound size relating to blood trails, it is indeed a bullet discussion. However, when you get into a case like mine with the 7mm-08, you can argue that is a cartridge issue. On the larger animals I shot (kudu, gemsbok - especially with quartering shots), some shots did not leave an exit wound. This certainly can affect blood trailing vs. having both an entrance and exit wound. If the 7mm mag can punch a hole through both sides of the animal despite the bullet diameter/weight being the same, one could argue that the same bullet can be made more effective for tracking if it's driven hard enough to create an exit wound. Again, the discussion relative to what cartridges are being compared in the same bullet diameter/size.
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This goes back to one of those gun store discussions. Lots of guys talk about dumping energy in vitals, I always liked to have a hole on one side and a bigger one on the other.
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This goes back to one of those gun store discussions. Lots of guys talk about dumping energy in vitals, I always liked to have a hole on one side and a bigger one on the other. There's plenty of validitiy in that argument and the more we talk about it, the more it's growing on me. Again, when it comes to impala/springbok-sized game, I have no issue with the 7mm-08: very little recoil and plenty of gas in a 140 gr. package to kill them dead and get entrance/exit. Anything bigger, and I'm going to the .300 Win mag for blood trail insurance.
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LtDan
I agree that familiarity with the rifle is critical. I also agree that the larger calibre allows more bleeding. I am not infected with magnumitis, but do find heavy large diameter bullets do their job well. Often slow big bullets give kills more like archery where the animal runs fifty or seventy five yards before going down. My experience is with heavy for calibre in muzzle loader. A 540 gr lead bullet at 1300 ft/sec penetrates like crazy, but only drops them in their tracks with a central nervous system hit. That is not Africa based, but North American.
Randy Ja, i agree. i am having a 300H&H mag built. i am especially after this calibre's ability to be downloaded for velocity with the heavier pgame bullets. 200-220grn. when overseas hunters ask me what calibre to bring for plains game, i simply say: "30-06". i know people wants this question to have a difficult or long explanation, but the fact of the matter is 30-06 will do just fine. so a 7mm mag in experienced hands should not be a problem. would have preferred a 30 calibre, but that is not a necessity.
Last edited by LT_DAN; 05/11/10.
I might hunt too much, but it is still not enough!
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I am a South African and have hunted extensively for the last 30-odd years. I have used a very wide range of calibers from .243 right through to .458 win mag. The 7mm Win mag is a magic caliber, no doubt about it, but I found it a bit over-powered for the weight of the bullet in the sense that, unless you really use prime bullets, because of the very high velocity, bullet failure is very common with this caliber. Certainly, with the heavier bullets it is ok, but why go to all the trouble when a 7X57 or 30-06 will do the job just as well? I agree with LtDan that the slow heavier bullets penetrate better, and on African game, penetration is everything. You don't hit the vitals, you don't have a trophy, .... simple as that. At the end of the day, in my humble opinion, there are only five things that matter: KNOW YOUR RIFLE, BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE RECOIL, BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE SHOOTING DISTANCE AND PLACE YOUR SHOT ACCURATELY. Ballistics is a great conversation piece, but I've never seen a ballistic table bring in a trophy.
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Campfire Tracker
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I am a South African and have hunted extensively for the last 30-odd years. I have used a very wide range of calibers from .243 right through to .458 win mag. The 7mm Win mag is a magic caliber, no doubt about it, but I found it a bit over-powered for the weight of the bullet in the sense that, unless you really use prime bullets, because of the very high velocity, bullet failure is very common with this caliber. Certainly, with the heavier bullets it is ok, but why go to all the trouble when a 7X57 or 30-06 will do the job just as well? I agree with LtDan that the slow heavier bullets penetrate better, and on African game, penetration is everything. You don't hit the vitals, you don't have a trophy, .... simple as that. At the end of the day, in my humble opinion, there are only five things that matter: KNOW YOUR RIFLE, BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE RECOIL, BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE SHOOTING DISTANCE AND PLACE YOUR SHOT ACCURATELY. Ballistics is a great conversation piece, but I've never seen a ballistic table bring in a trophy. Very good post. It is a smart man that can learn from his mistakes. It is a wise man that can learn from the mistakes of others. JW
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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As one of the earlier posters of my experience with the 7mm in this thread, I'm glad that the issues have been so well discussed and put out there from so many different perspectives.... This is an excellant example of what the campfire IS all about... sharing our experiences and learning from others... Thanks so much!!! Bigdogfla aka Paul 
I take a lickin', and SOMEHOW, Keep On Tickin'!!!!
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As one of the earlier posters of my experience with the 7mm in this thread, I'm glad that the issues have been so well discussed and put out there from so many different perspectives.... This is an excellant example of what the campfire IS all about... sharing our experiences and learning from others... Thanks so much!!! Bigdogfla aka Paul I'm new to this forum, but I already like the fact that people can disagree on a topic and not have the whole thing digress into a bitter pissing match. That says a lot about the quality of people on here.
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I'm new to this forum, but I already like the fact that people can disagree on a topic and not have the whole thing digress into a bitter pissing match. That says a lot about the quality of people on here. Well, do not venture into the optics forum on this site, then! Seriously though -- welcome! John
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I'm new to this forum, but I already like the fact that people can disagree on a topic and not have the whole thing digress into a bitter pissing match. That says a lot about the quality of people on here. Well, do not venture into the optics forum on this site, then! Seriously though -- welcome! John Uh, oh - hehe - thanks for the warning and thanks for the greeting. It's a pleasure to be here. Sharpsguy was the one who steered me this direction and I'm quite glad that he did. Lots of great info in here.
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Uh, oh - hehe - thanks for the warning and thanks for the greeting. It's a pleasure to be here. Sharpsguy was the one who steered me this direction and I'm quite glad that he did. Lots of great info in here. Well, I don't care what everybody says, I think Sharpsguy is one of the good guys!  John
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I haven't read six pages of replies, but I used a 7mm Remmy A Bolt om my first hunt, shooting 160 A Frames and killed the hell out of everything from a jackal to a gemsbok and a kudu, with one shot each, and a few others in between at ranges to 350 yards. The 7mm Remmy shines.
Last edited by beechdrvr; 05/12/10.
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Thanks all for the input. Guess it comes down to shot placement and bullet selection. I spent a few hours with a guy yesterday who took all types of planes game with a 7-30 walters in a 18" Contender carbine!!
Since I have a switch barrel Rem. with the 7mm and 375 barrels I'll take both but I'll start out with the 375.
Bin shooting it off sticks and shooting blue rock at 100,150 and 200 yds. 1 shot a each range and getting 90% hits and the misses are less than 3" off the spot so feeling good with it.
Thanks all
Rockhounding and varmint huntin
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