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Ed,
Do you sew your vents shut or just creat a flap for them? I would think something along the lines of a velcro deal would work well eh?
So, without a liner, cylinder stove, add some new stake points to suck it down a bit to the ground, and you figure I could get away with a Shangri-La 5 and a Cylinder stove setup for a November sheep hunt? I dont mind having to stoke the fire, but the ability to warm up at the end of the day, dry clothes, and go to bed warm would be nice.
Trev,
I have used an alligator clip to pinch the vent shut but I am going to sew up a velcro on cover like Shawn Ryan did for his SL.
An SL 5 would work fine for a November hunt.
I'm going to have to see more info on the tipi you mentioned as well. And either way I'm going to have to twist your arm into making a stove for me...
Ed T
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Hardcore,
1st off I want to say you did a great job on your SL 5 and stove as well as the posts on how to do it.
I personally don't want to pack 16 more stakes but did do have a tight pitch. Still isn't going to come near a Kifaru with a liner for tightness. Think double wall when using a liner.
And it isn't so much that heat rises as it is that cold sinks. With the vents open you get some very uncomfortable drafts when its cold. You should be fine with your in the seasons you plan on using it.
Any of the floorless tents allow plenty of oxygen to come in so that CO2 isn't a factor in my opinion. Ed, sure would like to see some pics of how a mesh liner makes this a tighter pitch on a kifaru then my sl5 and modifications. I also would like insight as to how a mesh liner and the hassle of carrying it and erecting it is easier then just carrying 16 stakes. Thanks.
Last edited by HardCoreHunter; 05/20/10.
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I was under the impression that the liner in the Kifaru wasnt 'mesh', and it hangs right to the ground, creating a better seal to the ground. No first hand experience though....
Anyone ever looked at the possibilities of creating a liner for the SL5? Some sort of velcro or clip system inside?
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Mine is tight to the ground, it is as tight as seal as anything without a bathtub floor. Shangri-las have an optional mesh liner and a floor comes with it. I just don't want one in mine. The whole purpose of a liner is so that it is mesh and helps eliminate condensation..the condensation goes on the silnyl and the mesh is against your belongings and it is the only part of the interior touching your stuff, so you stay dry....keeping bugs out is just another plus. A kifaru isn't going to have a solid sil nyl liner..I am sure theirs is mesh too.
Last edited by HardCoreHunter; 05/20/10.
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A kifaru isn't going to have a solid sil nyl liner..I am sure theirs is mesh too. I have never handled one, nor have the knowledge of one. I'm just going on what I had assumed. Guess I was wrong. Anyways I'm sure Ed will answer your question about the liner stuff. I definatly was just taking a stab in the dark... If I was going to look at putting a liner in the SL5 (down the road as a project), I wouldnt want the 'nest' with floor. Something to look at for creating a project down the road, but for now I'm happy just working away at creating a cool tipi/stove combo.
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Ed, sure would like to see some pics of how a mesh liner makes this a tighter pitch on a kifaru then my sl5 and modifications. I also would like insight as to how a mesh liner and the hassle of carrying it and erecting it is easier then just carrying 16 stakes. Thanks. Hardcore, a simple small liner/bug next like the SL2 (24 oz)nest you were looking at or better yet the MLD inner nest 2 man at 14 oz would be quicker to setup than the 16 extra stakes and about a wash on weight as well as be truly bug proof and give you a real floor in which to set your sleeping bag/pad inside of, which from what I understand would have been nice on the squishy ground you were camping on during your backpack turkey hunt. I plan on just using paracord to some internal tie points inside my SL5 so the inner mesh tent always setups as soon and I stake out the SL5 and put of the centerpole. No extra time to set it up at all actually. Just the extra staking is nice for shelter securtiy, but since you are using a stove you are planning on camping in the trees I imagine so wind will not be a huge issue as if you were camping on a high exposed ridgeline so the extra weight of the stakes is really not needed IMO. But your designs and mods to the tent are cool and interesting. I look forward to putting my SL5 to use here in the coming week. USPS shows its about half way to my house as we speak. 
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The Kifaru liner isn't mesh it is uncoated ripstop. Moisture passes thru just like on a double wall tent. Mesh is useless for trapping heat. The Kifaru liner adds 10-15 degrees of comfort and helps with condensation. And yes it drapes onto the ground- thats where it creates a much tighter seal.
The liner attaches so it can be left in. You pitch the tipi same with it as without it
Not to be pissy with you Hardcore, but I have had years of experience in wood heated shelters both Kifaru and GoLite. I know the differences between them.
Ed T
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The Kifaru liner isn't mesh it is uncoated ripstop. Moisture passes thru just like on a double wall tent. Mesh is useless for trapping heat. The Kifaru liner adds 10-15 degrees of comfort and helps with condensation. And yes it drapes onto the ground- thats where it creates a much tighter seal.
The liner attaches so it can be left in. You pitch the tipi same with it as without it
Not to be pissy with you Hardcore, but I have had years of experience in wood heated shelters both Kifaru and GoLite. I know the differences between them.
Kinda what I had thought on the liner in the Kifaru and its make. Guess my first guess was right. Thanks for positng the info and clearing it up Ed.
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Anyone ever looked at the possibilities of creating a liner for the SL5? Some sort of velcro or clip system inside? Trev, I have started but not finished a liner. It is like the Kifaru liners, un-coated ripstop. I am going to attach it with plastic mitten hooks on 1/8" bunji cord to loops on the tent sidewalls. I am going to make it either two or three piece so I can mix and match.
Ed T
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Trev,
I have started but not finished a liner. It is like the Kifaru liners, un-coated ripstop. I am going to attach it with plastic mitten hooks on 1/8" bunji cord to loops on the tent sidewalls. I am going to make it either two or three piece so I can mix and match.
Keep me posted on the progress Ed. I'm really interested and will most likely do some tinkering down the road. I think the SL5 with a cylinder stove will make a great setup, and by adding a liner it would increase the versatility a bit down the road. Thanks again for all the info!
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Cool Alaska lanche...did you get it on sale for $280 from Prolite? They have them back on sale right now for this price. I took a eureka zeus and pitched it inside my sl 5 yesterday to see if a 2 person nest would work. It did. The wind blows HARD here, even in the timber, so I am glad to have the extra tie downs. We commonly have 25-35 mph, with even higher winds at times. If a plane drops me off in Alaska for a moose hunt, I will def bring the stakes too. Extra stakes can help keep the shelter from being ripped and torn for sure. The beauty is, if I don't want to use them, I don't have too, and if I do, they are there. Regardless, a SL owner should sew those big loops in half like I did, so that you can pitch it tight.
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You want your shelter tight against wind for sure.
I have had an SL 6 in measured wind of 75 mph and a Kifaru 8 man in measured wind of 108 mph. These were taken with a Brunton wind meter.
The guy points are IMO as important as the peg loops on the bottom.
I like Hardcore's idea of sewing in extra peg loops on a GoLite, it's just that you don't have to with a Kifaru or one of Tim's shelters.
BTW, you don't need to sew the big loops, just peg behind them or if you aren't going to use a nest, remove them.
Ed T
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Cool Alaska lanche...did you get it on sale for $280 from Prolite? They have them back on sale right now for this price. I took a eureka zeus and pitched it inside my sl 5 yesterday to see if a 2 person nest would work. It did. The wind blows HARD here, even in the timber, so I am glad to have the extra tie downs. We commonly have 25-35 mph, with even higher winds at times. If a plane drops me off in Alaska for a moose hunt, I will def bring the stakes too. Extra stakes can help keep the shelter from being ripped and torn for sure. The beauty is, if I don't want to use them, I don't have too, and if I do, they are there. Regardless, a SL owner should sew those big loops in half like I did, so that you can pitch it tight. I picked it up from basegear.com for $280 they also had the SL5 nest for $140 and am going to use the nest in my SL8 setup as its over a pound lighter than my current SL4 nest to that'll be nice as well as give me a little more space in the front area of the SL8...not that I needed it in that monster tent. The extra staking is a nice options, but I am pretty darn sure these setups with just the 8 ground staking locations and the 4 extra midway staking locations will easily handle 30-40 mph winds. Granted if you are getting dropped off in AK and aren't packing up camp each and everyday to hike all day the extra 16 stakes is no big deal. I plan on tying 1/8" shockcord on all of the mid-height guyout points so they don't take all the stress in the wind. Should help a little and the guys at MLD suggest doing that to their setups so I figure the same concept should help out my SL5. May even tie the shockcord on the guyout loops on my SL8 as well as I have 20' of 1/8" shockcord coming for only $5.00 shipped. I'll even use shockcord loops in addition paracord when I tie my nest inside the SL5 for fast setup. I plan on using the SL5 with my wife on our 150 mile hike/packraft trip coming up this summer. Since we will be moving and setting up camp in a different locale each day and we wanted a trekking pole apiece anyways I bought a setup of these to double duty as trekking poles as well as screw together and use as a tent pole as the 115" version goes well over 7' that way. http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Black-Diamond-Carbon-Probe-Ski-Pole/BLD0466M.htmlThis will bring the total weight of my setup of the SL5 shelter, stakes, and bug nest w/floor (you'll want that in the AK summer regardless of how tightly pitched to the ground you can get as rarely to you get to camp on a perfectly level surface and them little bugger and get in anywhere) to roughly 50 oz. Not bad for 90 sq ft of shelter that you can stand up in in the center as well as 30+ sq ft of floored bug free sleeping area.
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Thanks for clearing that up Ed. Since this is a Shangri-la thread, I will try to stay on topic. There is no way to peg behind the big loops on the sl5. Either sew them in half, or put up with a looser fit to the ground. Guys that want these type of shelters need to assess how you are going to use it. A bow hunter doesn't need extra warmth and this cylinder stove I have will be plenty for any bow hunter's need for warmth. There is also no need to plug the roof vents or cover them for a bow hunter either. You rifle guys and guys that enjoy camping in the dead of winter need to go with bigger stoves and tighter pitches for sure, and decide whether you want to plug off the roof vents. You can either do like I did with the mods to my sl if you want it to be more snake, mouse, bug, draft resistant and more stable in winds, or get a floor, or the nest/floor combo. The problem with a floor, is that these have a large footprint, and this requires a perfect or near perfect flat spot. I like the no floor setup, but my girlfriend bow hunts with me and she would like me to get the sl2 nest. For her and I that would be OK, as we sleep together, but to put a sl2 nest in this and share the tipi with a buddy, would use up too much room as I am not sleeping with him in a sl2. ![[Linked Image]](http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/853/1stburn14.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/6751/1stburn13.jpg) The big loops and as you can see, there is no way to peg behind them, so by sewing them in half, this makes the peg pitch the bottom to the ground. It also gives 2 places for a stake, in case you want to place two at these points.
Last edited by HardCoreHunter; 05/21/10.
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Cool Alaska lanche...did you get it on sale for $280 from Prolite? They have them back on sale right now for this price. I took a eureka zeus and pitched it inside my sl 5 yesterday to see if a 2 person nest would work. It did. The wind blows HARD here, even in the timber, so I am glad to have the extra tie downs. We commonly have 25-35 mph, with even higher winds at times. If a plane drops me off in Alaska for a moose hunt, I will def bring the stakes too. Extra stakes can help keep the shelter from being ripped and torn for sure. The beauty is, if I don't want to use them, I don't have too, and if I do, they are there. Regardless, a SL owner should sew those big loops in half like I did, so that you can pitch it tight. I picked it up from basegear.com for $280 they also had the SL5 nest for $140 and am going to use the nest in my SL8 setup as its over a pound lighter than my current SL4 nest to that'll be nice as well as give me a little more space in the front area of the SL8...not that I needed it in that monster tent. The extra staking is a nice options, but I am pretty darn sure these setups with just the 8 ground staking locations and the 4 extra midway staking locations will easily handle 30-40 mph winds. Granted if you are getting dropped off in AK and aren't packing up camp each and everyday to hike all day the extra 16 stakes is no big deal. I plan on tying 1/8" shockcord on all of the mid-height guyout points so they don't take all the stress in the wind. Should help a little and the guys at MLD suggest doing that to their setups so I figure the same concept should help out my SL5. May even tie the shockcord on the guyout loops on my SL8 as well as I have 20' of 1/8" shockcord coming for only $5.00 shipped. I'll even use shockcord loops in addition paracord when I tie my nest inside the SL5 for fast setup. I plan on using the SL5 with my wife on our 150 mile hike/packraft trip coming up this summer. Since we will be moving and setting up camp in a different locale each day and we wanted a trekking pole apiece anyways I bought a setup of these to double duty as trekking poles as well as screw together and use as a tent pole as the 115" version goes well over 7' that way. http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Black-Diamond-Carbon-Probe-Ski-Pole/BLD0466M.htmlThis will bring the total weight of my setup of the SL5 shelter, stakes, and bug nest w/floor (you'll want that in the AK summer regardless of how tightly pitched to the ground you can get as rarely to you get to camp on a perfectly level surface and them little bugger and get in anywhere) to roughly 50 oz. Not bad for 90 sq ft of shelter that you can stand up in in the center as well as 30+ sq ft of floored bug free sleeping area. Sounds like a blast and quite an adventure. Take lots of pics and can't wait to see them.
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EdT- Not trying to be a smart-A, but you've mentioned "Tim's shelters" a couple of times on this thread. If you don't mind, which company are you talking about?
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Ed T
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As ED said the Kifaru liner is uncoated nylon. This allows water vapor to pass though but will stop most drips coming down. It also stops tipi snow. This can happen when the shelter's inner shell gets iced over from condensation once the stove dies down. A gust of wind will flake the ice off the walls on a person. Both the drips and snow are not big issues for me but keeping moisture off my down bag is nice. ![[Linked Image]](http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/IMG_0284.jpg) The bug nest for the Hex also stops some of these drips as the water tension seems to help but not to the same degree. ![[Linked Image]](http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/100_2946.jpg) A liner helps reduce drafts and this is a big deal. Consider just how cold a bathroom can get in winter with a window cracked open. It doesn�t take much. When the stove is running hot a heated shelter acts a bit like a deflating balloon. The hot air is expanding out though any gaps and this pressure keeps the colder air from coming it. But once the stove flags a bit the reverse happens. Cold air settles in the lower area of a heated shelter and this can bring on a chill. Goes without saying the more numerous the gaps the harder it will be for your stove to keep cold air from creeping in. A liner that hangs to the floor reduces these drafts. ![[Linked Image]](http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/Camp2/101_0369.jpg) But there seems to be more going with a liner that increases the overall heat within a shelter. The liner doesn�t offer any real insulation in terms of R-value in my view. But the inner liner is a bit like your skin and the air space and canopy mirrors a rain jacket. ![[Linked Image]](http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n220/Daytraderwon/Camp2/101_0361.jpg) This could all be speculation on my part but in any case a liner will add about 10+ degrees to a shelter and allows me to operate the stove with larger chunks of wood dampened down and this means longer runtimes and less work. I cover any gaps on the floor with leaf litter or snow. I also use a Mylar blanket to cover any gaps at the door as these often can�t be covered with snow etc. I look forward to reports of a DIY liner for the Golite shelters.
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I just ordered this through REI, as I was checking out their big sale and they happen to have this on sale. Here are the specs. It should hang from a couple of loops that are in my SL5 and be a UL way to have some insect control. Sea To Summit Mosquito Pyramid Net - Single Specs Specification Description Design type Non-freestanding shelter Seasons Not applicable Average weight 9 ounces Average weight - metric 0.26 kilogram Peak height 41 inches Peak height - metric 104 centimeters Dimensions 87 x 48 inches Dimensions - metric 221 x 122 centimeters Covered area 29 square feet Material(s) Polyester mesh Packed size 6 x 5.5 x 4 inches $23.99 http://www.rei.com/product/798574![[Linked Image]](http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/8233/seasummitnest.jpg)
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Are you guys hunting out in the cold weather, skiing, or just having fun camping where you need these liners and dealing with ice and what not?
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