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I'd let you tag along with me, if you wanna give it a try.  All of my spots are hunted out, do you know of any good ones? 
I hunt, therefore I am.
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What am I missing on that bull? I can't get 340 out of from the photos.. Not calling BS, but my guesstimates must be way off. Was it entered into the B&C awards at 362+? I was honestly getting under 340, while gifting everywhere - because everybody else was guessing so much higher.
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My first thought was 362 also, but it was posted twice so I didn't bother. What I see is a very typical 345-350 frame with extra inches on the 3rds and 4ths. It's hard to tell how good the fronts are in the pictures, but figured maybe a few inches there total. The hard part for me is getting the frame size right when guys are sitting back behind the animal. That bull is very simular to my 350 bull but has longer 3rds and 4ths. I'm usually more wrong than right in these games but they're always fun.
Kent
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I'd be proud to claim any legal animal and the all of the 1's in the GREAT pictures provided.
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Good thread Rackmastr. Seeing how I also managed to draw a bull tag here in Alberta after a 9 year wait I can sure benefit from everyone's pictures and feedback. Regardless of all the videos, and magazine articles I still really find it tough to judge them. Also being in a zone with potential for cranker bulls I hope come crunch time I make the correct judgement. My goal also is for a bull in that 350+ range, seeing how this will be a bit of a unique opportunity.
Thanks, and keep it coming.
Last edited by Duk Dog; 07/30/08.
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OP
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Know what ya mean Duk....should be a good year. Cant wait to get out and scout some bulls with ya on the weekend and maybe do some field judgin....
Great pics guys!!!
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OK all you elk judges, what does this one score? ![[Linked Image]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/cdeank/DSC00405.jpg) He'd gross 320-330--his 5th points are very short for a bull that size....He looks to be an Arizona bull? Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Discussions like this are always interesting, especially when very detailed directions are given for precise estimates.
Last fall I hunted elk on the Whittington Center in northern New Mexico with a friend. We were guided by the center's two top guides. I have also seen a few elk killed, and killed a couple myself. My friend had never killed anything big, but had passed up a lot of bulls over the years looking for a really big one.
Each of us took a nice 7x6. Mine came on the first day, and we didn't get to look at too long, as he appeared suddenly with a companion about 100 yards away. But there was no hesitation on the part of either the guide or me. I didn't guess score, just knew the bull was quite mature, with long tines. My guide did make a quick guess at 340+, and it turned out a little optimistic. I didn't give a damn, because it was still a big, really mature bull.
My friend shot his bull on the next-to-last day. BOTH guides got to look at a long while, across a canyon, and neither thought it would gross over 300--but the hunt was gettng short. It turned out to gross 345. The reason? The body was huge, and made the antlers look small.
We later took a photo of my friend and me, standing side by side, holding the racks. They look to be really similar, and yet there is supposedly a big difference between a 320 bull and a 350 bull, easily noticeable to any experienced elk hunter.
This is yet another in a long line of stories I've accumulated about field-judging. In general the only animals that look really big, ARE really big. The rest of it is mostly guesswork, with "experts" getting fooled a lot more than they like to admit.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I don't know anyone that is perfect on elk, but I know a guy here in AZ that can absolutely peg a coues whitetail to the inch. I have had several guys tell me this. In fact while in Mexico, there was large buck nailed to the barn and after some discussion and betting, they got a ladder and took the buck down to settle it once and for all. Alan was within 1/4"! Too me, antelope are the hardest!
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Yeah, antelope can be tough too. I was on a hunt a few years ago on a good ranch in New Mexico with 5 other guys. We all got bucks that scored between 78 and 86, and even the guides couldn't really call all that much difference in the field before the bucks were on the ground. They were all 15-16" long with good prongs. And these were also guides who had seen a LOT pronghorn taken.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire Ranger
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![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/Georgedevries/HPIM0030.jpg) Well, this bull scores..heck, I don't know and could care less. I took him on the last day of a bitterly cold and windy late season hunt in CO and hunted as hard as I ever want to again. My guide who is very knowledgeable thought about 330 once his one broken tine was repaired to match the other. I, however, scored about a 2 on a comfort score of 1-10, ten being very comfortable  . I had to put the camera batteries in my pocket for several minutes to get about two pic's worth out of 'em. I'm sure that had something to do with the pic's quality too.
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It turned out to gross 345. The reason? The body was huge, and made the antlers look small.
I almost threw in that disclaimer, too 20 years ago, a buddy and I were glassing a big bull during the winter in the Gunnison Basin. We watched him lead a bunch of bulls out of the timber. We guessed the big one to be pushing 365+. Then a small raghorn pulled up beside the big one, and it was quickly obvious this bull was HUGE bodied--he was literally 14-16 inches longer, and 6 inches taller than the raghorn. We quickly figured out we were looking at a 400 class bull, and easily the heaviest bull I've ever seen--maybe 900+ lbs. Several other folks subsequently saw that bull hanging on the outskirts of Gunnison, and the consensus was that he was a bona fide monster. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Opening day is creeping up quickly. Any other pictures or words of advice?
Thanks!
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I have found a lot of nice photos that are helping me learn to spot the differences just by using google. One of the best sources of bulls that have been scored is kings world
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this guy is 7x7, scores 355 and change. He stars out in the back on both sides and has 21 & 22" #3's ![[Linked Image]](http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/HuntKY/355Bull.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/HuntKY/355bull-1.jpg)
Protect WYDAHO fish and game, fence out Utah.
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"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Just did a quick search and couldn't find if you posted it or not, but what did that hog end up scoring?
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Campfire Tracker
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Discussions like this are always interesting, especially when very detailed directions are given for precise estimates.
Last fall I hunted elk on the Whittington Center in northern New Mexico with a friend. We were guided by the center's two top guides. I have also seen a few elk killed, and killed a couple myself. My friend had never killed anything big, but had passed up a lot of bulls over the years looking for a really big one.
Each of us took a nice 7x6. Mine came on the first day, and we didn't get to look at too long, as he appeared suddenly with a companion about 100 yards away. But there was no hesitation on the part of either the guide or me. I didn't guess score, just knew the bull was quite mature, with long tines. My guide did make a quick guess at 340+, and it turned out a little optimistic. I didn't give a damn, because it was still a big, really mature bull.
My friend shot his bull on the next-to-last day. BOTH guides got to look at a long while, across a canyon, and neither thought it would gross over 300--but the hunt was gettng short. It turned out to gross 345. The reason? The body was huge, and made the antlers look small.
We later took a photo of my friend and me, standing side by side, holding the racks. They look to be really similar, and yet there is supposedly a big difference between a 320 bull and a 350 bull, easily noticeable to any experienced elk hunter.
This is yet another in a long line of stories I've accumulated about field-judging. In general the only animals that look really big, ARE really big. The rest of it is mostly guesswork, with "experts" getting fooled a lot more than they like to admit. Dont want to get into a pissin match here, but ya, there is a big difference between a 320 and 350 bull.However, there are far more "experianced" elk hunters than there are trophy elk hunters..the average experienced elk hunter may encounter a 350+ bull one time in his carrer, or maybe even never. Don't want to sound like a know it all, cuz I aint..but if a trophy guide around here missed a bull by 45", he wouldn't be around long.
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At archery ranges I would think it would be relatively easy to tell, but at very long spotting ranges it would certainly be harder. A 350" is REAL big, whereas a 320" is very nice. I doubt I'd spend even a moment wondering if it was a 320 or 350 though, I'd just shoot. Really, barring a change in hunting venue, the odds of me even seeing a 350 are so slim I don't even worry about it.
Last edited by prm; 06/07/10.
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I was once told to start with 200" thats avg mass/beams/spread measurements on a 6x6. then start adding the length of points. For example: 1st 14" + 2nd 15" + 3rds 12" + 4th 20" + 5th 16" = 77". 77 x 2 both side are approx the same = 154. 154 + 200 = 350ish.
The tricky part is est the lengths. I've been told to use the ear as a guide. The ear is approx 10-12 inches long.
Of course I used this method and shot what I estimated to be a 340 class bull. only later to figure out that he was only 300. His mass, beams, and spread didn't come anywhere near the 200". He was unusually narrow. and I overestimated on point length.
I prefer the "no doubt" method. I've developed it.... You hunt until you find one that you have no doubt about. Shoot and leave the tape measure in the tool shed. He's a trophy, numbers don't matter.
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