Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Idaho/Montana Wolf Update

Reintroduce wolves to the mountains of California?

Excellent idea. When they've finished eating the few bighorn sheep and deer that escape our exploding population of state-protected mountain lions, perhaps they can then eat the cats -- and then start chewing on all the idiots who voted for blind preservation of same.

No, you are a troll because you continue to ignore what I wrote. You make up your own "facts." I was actually warned that you were a troll, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt, answering your questions and explaining my position, to a fault. But I already wrote that several times. So, after several attempts to discuss the subject with you, I found that the posters who warned me were right. See ya.

There is a long history between several of the trolls and me. I don't bother to try and reason with some of them. I just give it back to them in spades. Now you know.

I lived close to ground zero during the first wolf introduction in Montana. My elk hunting grounds at the time was Slough Creek close to the northeast corner of Yellowstone park. The initial release was in the Lamar valley of Yellowstone. Within days of there release the wolves had crossed the Beartooth mtns and where feeding on cattle and domestic dogs in the ranch country, now keep in mind the Beartooth are the highest and most rugged mtns in Mt.they did this in the dead of winter!From there they crossed the hwy and were found in the crazy mtns! We were told by the biologist/greenies that they wouldnt leave Yellowstone because there was an overabundance of bison for them to feed on! At the time I would travel to Jackson,Wy once a month and I would count the moose as I crossed Togatee pass and it wasnt unusual to see a dozen+ moose. A year after the wolf release I never saw another moose and didnt for years after that! I would deliver supplies to the dude ranches surounding Yellowstone and they all had backcountry elk camps and they didnt want it known that the wolves had wiped out the elk herd as it would affect there ability to sell elk hunts! We were told it would balance out? instead it has spread like the plague! What many people , liberals/media... dont understand is that the people in these areas live close to the land and its animals,its a way of life and the livelyhood for many.So yes emotions and opinions run strong. Also many game dept are politisied. An industry revolves around endangered species and many people lie and misrepresent the truth in order to protect there jobs. Logcutter is at the current epicenter of this and I have heard of the drastict reductions of deer and elk in central Idaho, due to wolf predatation. Its easy for people back east to sit in there easy chairs and opine on theory... the truth is without aggressive wolf management this decline in game population will continue! The greenies would rather have wolves eat every deer and elk than have a sportsman legally harvest them.

I'll answer that...again...and again...and..... I don't have to live in Idaho to learn about wolves there. I read what the folks wrote who manage and study Idaho's wildlife for a living. And they even live there. You have continued to ignore those facts.

If you think they are wrong, post your own data. How many elk are there? How many wolves? What methods did you use to count them? What statistical evaluations did you use? This stuff is in the state's reports. Why did you not include your methods?



I also didn't post that, mudhen did. Why are you not pissed at him? That's right, its not really about wolves.




Who here wrote that wolves were "in check?"

Did I miss something, or are you just making crap up again?

I'm pretty sure that all of the posters here support wise state management, including hunting and trapping, as we've written many times. Why do you ignore that fact? Oh, that's right, it isn't really about wolves with you trolls.

Ah hell, I think I'll go fishing again. Way more fun.

Tell us the story again, logcutter. I saved the thread from last time, including the newspaper stories about it(I save everything), so make sure you get the facts wrong again.

Nope, thats Mortie and his cousin Shortie. Mortie went to Aferika and never came back. I know that you have not been here long enough to know that and you just made a fool of yourself, 'specially since you probably got that picture from someone who copied from my post(or me), since I posted it several times in the past. Joke's on you.

Who's an "ex Biologist?"

Dpole

Welcome back and I hope Nurse Ratched was better to you this trip but it still appears you think your from Idaho..

News flash....

POCATELLO � The Idaho Fish and Game commissioner for the Southeast Region said Idaho�s burgeoning wolf population has adversely affected elk numbers and impacted revenue received from out-of-state hunters.

And the numbers are way up...

Budge noted the initial goals of reintroduction were 10 breeding pairs and 100 wolves in Idaho. Wolf populations have grown at 20-25 percent a year and now number approximately 85 packs, with 1,000 wolves, which he indicated to be a conservative estimate.

�Wolves have been very productive,� Budge said.

Being from Idaho like yourself,I assume you know your comrades that said this.

�From a wildlife perspective, there�s no question that this growing wolf population has had a devastating impact on our elk populations and our moose populations,� he said. �Our scientists� and biologists� studies on all these collared packs indicate that each wolf eats an average of 16 elk per year, so if you do the math and are being conservative, our 1,000 wolves are eating 16,000 elk per year.

Now DPole..Being an Idaho enthusiast with as much interest that you have in this State even though you do not live here but worship what Idaho has to say,it is time to listen to the State scientists� and biologists� that reported this...

Jayco

Again, you are lying. I don't think I'm from Idaho. I've never claimed that I'm from Idaho, or that I have personal knowlege of Idaho. As I wrote, many times, I get my info from the managers, who live in Idaho. You continue to lie about what I "think." I "think" its interesting that you suddenly are quoting the state's game managers, since you ignore the other things they said, and that were posted here. Now that you agree with your state's wildlife managers, we have nothing further to discuss.

my "cross-outs"


I accept what the state managers say. I never said I disagreed. In fact, I wrote many times that I accept whatever Idaho decides to do with wolf management. You continue to ignore it because you are a dirtbag. Its you who makes that shiite up about me. However, You need to write the citation of where you got your info, and remember, that the elk pop is below management goals in only six of the management areas. The rest of the state is at or above those goals. Not all the elk are gone, troll. Its not really about wolves though, is it? Its about your bruised pride. Get over it.

Now, be a good boy and post how you are counting the wolves and elk; what methods you used, and include citations. If you agree with the state managers, quoted in the first post on this thread, just say so, and STFU. And tell me who is an "ex Biologist." I don't know any on this thread.

Take a couple deep breaths and relax..Some say they know all about my hunting area and one was bold enough to say he was closer to ground zero than I when he frequented Montana...

Okay..This is one of or used to be one of my hunting areas...

Budge said the state�s biggest and historically most stable elk herd in the Lolo Pass area has gone from 11,000-13,000 elk to under 2,000 since wolves began to inhabit the area.

Not good ehhh...

Now this is from hunters and alot of Out of Staters..Should we believe them?

Fish and Game polled previous visitors to the state to find out if the economy was the culprit or if it was some other reason.

�The No. 1 reason listed for not coming to Idaho was, �You haven�t taken care of your wolves and your wild animal populations are down,�� Budge recounted

I think that speaks for itself...

Jayco

Perfectly relaxed. But by all means, pretend that you have me flustered.



I don't care. It wasn't me.



Ahh, quoting the state's game managers again! I posted the study that gave the numbers present in that area several years ago, along with the history of management there. Remember that?

With wise state management, your managers should be able to reduce wolf and other predator pops to a level that will provide desired elk numbers. And I support that. As I posted, I don't care how many wolves you manage for, or how many elk, deer, whatever you manage for. I don't hunt there, and don't care to. But feel free to make up a bunch of crap about what I "think."

I only have a short time to get fishing before my little friends come out tonight. Thread is all yours. Have fun.

Wolves are here to stay.

I find them pretty interesting critters.

Yellowstone was overgrazed. Hunting wasn't going to be an option to reduce elk numbers. Wolves made sense in that context.

Wolves are now being hunted. That's good.

Wolves are here to stay.

No ma doubt the wolves are here to stay. I would like to see a couple things in regards to them.

*I'd like to see them treated like yotes and other vermin (IE shoot on sight and hunt 365)

*I'd like to see more reports on predictions on how they're populations will grow with time and as a result of that how much game they'll be taking on a year basis. Be kind of interesting to have biologist take their crystal ball and look into the future 5 years or so.

I saw a nice black one a few days ago.

Dober

Mark, since there are likely at least a million coyotes in the state and less than 2,000 wolves in the entire state, the "shoot on sight" will never happen.

Likely MTFWP has a five year report on the wolf numbers/game predation... we should call them and see.

I watched a gray female wolf yesterday morning at 300 yards.. pretty cool stuff.

I'm still glad we've got a hunt... we're a lot further ahead with the idea of "management" than we were two years ago.

No doubt we're further ahead and I like the hunt idea. I would like to see the hunt go till about Jan 15th though.

You're right about the shoot on sight deal but if we went that way I'm fairly certain they'd have no problems maintaining the mgt # that they originally wanted.

Other than all out war fare on them I'm fairly sure they'll not get a good handle on them as we're going. But, I could be totally wrong.

FWP may well have the report, the thing that amazes me is that in every article written they talk about how many we have, how many we started with etc but they don't talk about the future and I feel that they should.

You know me I've no problemo with them being here, I would like to see them controlled however.

Dober

The good thing is that more than the "hunt" number of wolves are taken by FWP yearly... from what I've seen not all of the wolves shot by FWP are even reported.

I think you're right though about pushing the hunt through January... and I'd like to see the total hunter kill at 350 - 400 per year.

Dpole does not care or understand the impact that the wolf re-introduction program has on the locals that live and make a living in the areas affected by the wolf depredation, maybe in Minnesota the wolves are a tourist attraction? Where hunting is a way of life and a business wolves are a serious threat!The wolves are a tool for the anti-hunters!

Any Wolf outside of Yellowstone should be fair game.

Ya how they initially sold wolves to us was they wouldnt leave Yellowstone cuz there was an over-abundance of bison and thats what they would eat! Well it appears they preffer moose, elk ,livestock, oh and dogs!