Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 223 a bad mistake for the military

But the 308 produces those wounds at much longer range and will go through things the .223 only dreams about. The .223 was made to be a wounding weapon.

A good palm pilot program takes a lot of the variables out.... Its all really math, there is nothing vodoo like in shooting. Especially for elevation issues.

Feel free to stand in front of a 223 and pray to recieve only a wound.... generally good folks don't shoot that poorly.

At close range using military ammunition 5.56 is more dramatic than 7.62.

My brother had a sniper in his OCS class. He asked about caliber and was told that it was essentially unheard of to shoot through anything with an individual weapon at any range. Their targets were either in the open or behind hard cover.

But hey, it makes a great argument on the internet.

Ryan. Exactly. Mud walls will catch A lot of rounds, including 50 cal in some situations.

Mike,

thanks for your service!

And what is even more funny is that the Army and Marines followed the Air Force lead in buying the M16. A rifle designated to defend Air Force bases. That is totally hilarious.

This is funny too! LOL! Those stupid Air Force people don't know what they are doing!

"Air Force Revives .45-cal Handgun"

http://defensetech.org/2007/04/18/exclusive-air-force-revives-45-cal-handgun/#comment-207332




bs



Why do you think the Marines are switching bullets, again?
Why is there a push to change the gas system from the M16 to a H&K 416 type system?
Why was the 6.8 developed?
Why do we consistently read of M16/ammo failures to function at crucial times?
Why was I testing 5.56 ammo in gel blocks for
SOF who were looking for a "better" bullet?

1Minute, an accurate appraisal on this subject. Sooner or later, the needs of the actual users in the field will coincide with the day's "political" concerns (with all its baggage)to produce a useful military round. Until then - set your phasers on 'stun'. Regards, Homesteader.

I understand. My reference to a "dope book" was more to having good data.

BMT

Yes Sir. Thank you!

Interesting to know that the well trained forces have zero complaints with whats available to them...

We do need better bullets in 5.56. 6x45 would make sense, as a caliber swap. A better caliber makes more sense in belt fed applications vice individual weapons.

In CQB I'll take the 7.62 every time, not to mention it shoots through walls a lot better than a
5.56.




That's not what they told me. They told me the 5.56 was inconsistent in killing bad guys . Black Hills believed them and developed a new round for them which I believe they eventually went to.



Those "some" were enough for a major manufacture, Remington, to spend 10s of thousands of dollars to develop the 6.8 cartridge.

It's time for a new cartridge and a new rifle.

Why carry all that brass around.
http://remtek.com/arms/hk/mil/g11/caseless.htm

dave

http://www.hkpro.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=23:the-g11-caseless-military-rifle&catid=11:rare-prototypes&Itemid=5

Just shows what can be done.


dave

Woo hoo! an 18 caliber rifle!

I recall what Clint Smith has said: "There is no technology good enough to overcome the operator."

BMT

Yep,a select fire BB gun.
Wouldn't want to get hit with it.

dave

No doubt.

Thinking out loud . . . . "can that caseless ammo get wet?"

BMT

An acquaintance of mine spent 28 years in SF, mostly in first and seventh groups, and told me he prefers 5.56mm because he can shoot people twice as much in the same amount of time. He doesn't like the new 5.56mm ammunition and likes the old M193, which is better than M855 in almost every way. He also tells me that he hasn't seen a caliber that will drop someone every time.

The origin of MK 262: AMU had a pallet of 5.56 pressure ammunition in 77 and 69 grain. There were more 77s so they sent them over to be used by SF guys with MK12s. SF guys started using the ammunition in their M4s because it is more effective than M855. Black Hills later developed the Mod 1 variant with an eye towards terminal effect.

The BH load developed specifically for terminal effect and SF is the 70gr TSX. I forget the name for it, but it's characterized by a brown tip. A friend gave me some, and some MK262, but I haven't tried it yet.

Remington, or specifically one or two people at Remington, have done nearly everything in their power to kill 6.8 in its cradle. And if it wasn't for Hornady and SSA, they would have succeeded.

If we were to select new rifles, 7x46 for LMGs and riflemen, and 6x35 for RTOs, officers, SNCOs, medics, fire and maneuver units. Tilting bolt, like an FAL, would be preferable. Or a three lug AK style bolt.

Funny thing is a lot of guys will accept that fact the even huge hunting rounds (338 Win, 375 H&H, etc) will not absolutely positively knock down a deer. Even with solid COM hits. They accept that the deer might run off and die 20 or more steps down the trail.

But when this fact of Mammalian Physiology occurs in combat situations, its somehow surprising.

BMT