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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
Save a bunch of dough and buy a Cooper Jackson Hunter or Excaliber rifle. Spend the rest on the best glass you can buy. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.cooperfirearms.com/ex-s.jpg) The 4 I have shot have been well put together and super accurate. JM
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,743
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,743 |
I dont think there fools at all. If I had the resources to own a 14000 rifle.I'd most likley have one of D'Arcy's. All kinds of people have all kinds of ideas about what they think is right.And what one guy thinks is a POS is another guys little piece of heaven.Everyones MMV. Heck people think im nuts because im a S&B fanatic. I typically spend 2 to 3 times on the optic what I spend on the rest of the rifle. I like benchrest gunsmiths as I figure that at the very least you'll get a decent chamber job.I've found BR smiths to be pretty anal about everything they do.And that includes function. Its a formula thats worked well for me for quite a while now.
dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,446
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,446 |
If you got the cash, I say go for it.
I have never seen a Brinks truck following a hearse!!!
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 18,508 |
But I've seen some po ass relatives following one. LOL ![grin grin](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif)
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,263
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,263 |
Have had a local gunsmith put together a semi custom rifle and had some issues with it. I may purchase a high end custom with an all around caliber such as 300 win. There are some real expensive options such as Borden, McMillan, Nesika Bay, Ed Brown and some others. Is a named custom/semi custom the safe route to go for a super accurate gun with good customer service? Might step down a little in round to 280AI. Cooper is another option that would save a bunch of money. I unfortunately do not plan to own a bunch of rifles, just want one real good one to shoot at deer and possibly elk. Thanks. Bonefish, I have a Davenport and a Cooper. However, my advice is to buy a Sako 85 in 30-06, put a Swaro scope of your choice on it, and call it a day. Rick
I'm better when I move.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 939
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 939 |
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the famous gun smiths have a long back-log of work. Could be well over a year for some. Just getting a custom barrel made, by the barrel maker, can take a few months.
With the times they way they are, right now there are lots of really fine custom rifles on the used market. If you aren't terribly picky about the details, you could save yourself a lot of time and money if you searched around a little for nice used custom. A lot of times these guns were safe queens and haven't seen the light of day, so you coul be getting a practically new gun for a fraction of the price.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 150
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 150 |
I have a Cooper Jackson Game in 280 Rem. It is the most accurate gun I have. Looked at customs and went this route and am very pleased. Go Cooper with high end glass.
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 374
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 374 |
Yeah but.....Mr. Cooper voted for Obama. Remember?
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
I have to confess to having always been more concerned about how well the rifle would feed loaded cartridges. Enough so that I always test with complete cartridges and don't much care how well the rifle might feed empties. See, I've been hunting and target shooting for nearly fifty years and am unable to recall a situation where I thought an empty case was the right choice for the shot I had to make. When it comes to custom gunmakers, there are, literally, hundreds of them whose skills impress me; a lot. GD +1 Im thinking a person ought to know what bullet or bullets there thinking about usuing and have the gun set up accordingly. Feeding empty cases to me seems like a good case of mental masturbation. I absolutely need to know that the loaded rounds I have in my hand will feed. Empty ones not so much. dave Dave, of all the folks who have chimed in on this topic, I would have thought you would have been more understanding of the guy who insists on owning one of D'Arcy's rifles. You seem to be very demanding of your riflescopes to the point that most don't understand or appreciate. Sounds like the Echols owners and you would have some common ground.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 150
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Nov 2008
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,743
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 8,743 |
I dont think there fools at all. If I had the resources to own a 14000 rifle.I'd most likley have one of D'Arcy's. Sounds like the Echols owners and you would have some common ground. All so true Mr Finn. dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
Sorry Dave, I missed that one.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
I have met a couple of D'Arcy's clients in the shop--they by no means have the bearing of fools.
If I had $14K, I would not be buying one of his guns. A portion of the expense is in having his shop cover every last detail, including scope mounting, accuracy work, etc. I can do--and enjoy doing--that work for myself. His customers are often non-looneys who want turnkey perfection.
Now if I had $25k for a rifle, getting one of his wood stocked guns is an entirely different matter.
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,961
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,961 |
A NULA comes close to being the world's most beautiful woman.
Time spent hunting is not deducted from one's lifetime.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578 |
But just a bit thick in the waist.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,378
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,378 |
Food for thought, here's a list of problems I've had with various gunsmiths. A lot of the problems were from gunsmiths recommended in this thread (to be clear, NOT Jim Borden). These issues are off the top of my head, I'm sure I could come up with more. I've had to ship the completed rifle back to the gunsmith (or to another gunsmith due to total lack of confidence in the first) to fix some boneheaded oversight more times than not.
Paid for the action to be trued only to later discover that it had not been touched
Burs in the chamber causing sticky ejection (requiring the use of a rubber mallet to open the bolt)
Barrel grossly off centered in the barrel channel
Trigger grossly off centered in the trigger guard
Absolutely no fitting of the trigger guard/floorplate in the stock, just drop it in and if it doesn't fit....oh well!
The barreled action not oriented correctly in the stock (ejection port aligned with cut out in stock, tang not buried in the stock nor bedded to high, etc.)
Trigger firing upon bolt closure
Magazine not clearing the stock (rifles are bedded without the magazine box installed and when everything is put back together the box bottoms out in the stock causing all sorts of tension in the arrangement)
The follower catching on the bottom metal thus not seating completely down in the belly of the bottom metal and not allowing the last round to be shoved down into the magazine
The bolt handle recess in the stock not being properly relieved causing the bolt to no fully close
Sloppy bedding with an unbelievable amount of tension
Sloppy coating of metal. Finish pealing off even before I take it out of the box.
Sloppy painting of stock like my 5 year old did it
Barrel cut to the wrong length, wrong contour, wrong twist
Wrong stock and wrong LOP
Stock broken in the recoil lug area because they cut away to much stock material when relieving the lug area for bedding
Returning the rifle with a scope mounted that was not mine
Caliber spelled wrong on the barrel
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,630
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,630 |
Food for thought, here's a list of problems I've had with various gunsmiths. A lot of the problems were from gunsmiths recommended in this thread (to be clear, NOT Jim Borden). These issues are off the top of my head, I'm sure I could come up with more. I've had to ship the completed rifle back to the gunsmith (or to another gunsmith due to total lack of confidence in the first) to fix some boneheaded oversight more times than not.
Paid for the action to be trued only to later discover that it had not been touched
Burs in the chamber causing sticky ejection (requiring the use of a rubber mallet to open the bolt)
Barrel grossly off centered in the barrel channel
Trigger grossly off centered in the trigger guard
Absolutely no fitting of the trigger guard in the stock, just drop it in and if it doesn't fit....oh well!
The barrel action not oriented correctly in the stock (ejection port aligned with cut out in stock, tang not buried in the stock nor bedded to high, etc.)
Trigger firing upon bolt closure
Magazine not clearing the stock (rifles are bedded without the magazine box installed and when everything is put back together the box bottoms out in the stock causing all sorts of tension in the arrangement)
The floorplate catching on the bottom metal thus not seating completely down in the belly of the bottom metal and not allowing the last round to be shoved down into the magazine
The bolt handle recess in the stock not being properly relieved causing the bolt to no fully close
Sloppy bedding with an unbelievable amount of tension
Sloppy coating of metal. Finish pealing off even before I take it out of the box.
Sloppy painting of stock like my 5 year old did it
Barrel cut to the wrong length, wrong contour, wrong twist
Wrong stock and wrong LOP
Stock broken in the recoil lug area because they cut away to much stock material when relieving the lug area for bedding
Returning the rifle with a scope mounted that was not mine
Caliber spelled wrong on the barrel
To have those problems with what sounds to be semi-customs, synthetic stocked rifles is ridiculous, even more ridiculous if they were with wood stocked customs. You really should put up the names..........I'd never again use anyone who did any one of those things, so I'd feel not compunction about listing the names. MM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,378
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Posts: 4,378 |
I'd rather not list names but if anyone wants to know if its a smith that they're considering to use, PM me and I'll let you know if I've had experience with them.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565 |
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