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so all the hoopla over the g33/40 is 3 oz,?!?!??! 3 freaking ounces???? are you kidding me??? that proves it right there gun people are loonies.
I think building on any mauser is crazy especially these days, just go buy a brand new winchester or even a ruger, it has all the features the mauser has and then some, 3 pos safety, hinging bottom metal, more scope mount options.
the dirty secret about alot of customs is they don't shoot as good as factory rifles in alot of cases but no one on the internet will tell you that. after 3 customs and thousands of $$$$ spent on them, I am done. I will just buy a factory rifle and if doesn't shoot buy another one, till I find one that shoots to my standards. It will be alot cheaper in the end.
Last edited by cumminscowboy; 08/23/10.
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Not ragging on you......but just how old are you???
None of the "modern" actions can compare to a good example of the '98 Mauser. Paul Mauser perfected the bolt action rifle in 1898.......everything else has been a step backwards, except maybe in cost of manufacturing.
I hate change, it's never for the better.... Grumpy Old Men
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know
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Guessing this sort of argument isn't as common these days, in places where one is limited to what can be legally owned and hunted with?
Lucky fer us, we can still haggle over the sanity of squandering thousands on customs. Or just thumpin' big game with off the shelf rifles, most of which are far more accurate than those which were offered years ago.
If three or more people think you're a dimwit, chances are at least one of them is right.
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I like all kinds of rifle stocks, but there's just something special about a nice piece of walnut with good checkering, done right they can be a thing of beauty and grace. I have such a rifle and I do not baby it. I have had it re-finished once to remove dents and scratches, but I don't think I do that again. Some of those dings had memories associated with them. I find as I age how I do a thing and who and what I do that thing with is more important than simple out comes.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That was the best time!
I can remember when you could get about any 98 military rifle with a desirable action for under $100, and often much less. yeah, back when Lugers were $39 on the back page of the Rifleman. If only we'd have knowed. 
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Not ragging on you......but just how old are you???
None of the "modern" actions can compare to a good example of the '98 Mauser. Paul Mauser perfected the bolt action rifle in 1898.......everything else has been a step backwards, except maybe in cost of manufacturing. Truth told. This has the makings of a signature line.
Member of the Merry Band of turdlike People.
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Not ragging on you......but just how old are you???
None of the "modern" actions can compare to a good example of the '98 Mauser. Paul Mauser perfected the bolt action rifle in 1898.......everything else has been a step backwards, except maybe in cost of manufacturing. Truth told. This has the makings of a signature line. funny that I see most people building mausers with the features that winchesters already have. why reheat treat a mauser, drill and tap it, bend the bolt handle, find suitable bottom metal, add a 3 POS safety, when a winchster has all this done, has CRF and all good features of the mauser without modification. the action will not be a sloppy rode hard military action. different strokes for different folks I guess.
Last edited by cumminscowboy; 08/23/10.
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everything else has been a step backwards, except maybe in cost of manufacturing. Taking that quote litterally, all I have to say is .. Horseapples.  The 3 position safety, trigger design and cocking cam on the Winchester m70 are an improvement over the military m98 action for any sporting use. The Remington m700 reciever layout is an improvment in pure accuracy. It's not even debateable. Benchrest shooters a lot older than you (as in long dead and gone) settled that issue in the 1950s and 60s. You can love, revere and idolize the m98 all you want, but it still does not make it superior to every turnbolt repeater that has come after it.
Last edited by jim62; 08/23/10.
To all gunmaker critics-
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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Two things I find really amazing is just how good the Mausers are and how good the pre 64/70's are. And then to think how much older they are and how far ahead those designs were b4 there time amazes me as well. I'd be for betting that in this world, and in this market that one could find (with some searching) a decent G33/40 for $700-$800. It may take a while but I bet it could be done. By my way of thinking, the best running rigs I've ever been around (taking into account, how they feel when worked, how they feed, and good things like that) have been by far good Mausers and the Pre 64/70's. The only rigs I've been around that come even close to these are one of Tom Burgess works of art around a Enfield. A couple friends of mine had Tom build them 416 Rigby's and they were totally incredible. Of course, so was the price at 5K plus over a decade ago (for the barreled action)... D'Arcy's Legend, and Millers Marksmen and Simillions rigs come to mind as well and are super stars as well but then the price is as well..and way above my pay grade! Nope for me I like the Pre 64/70 with a lightish barrel and or the G33/40 with a lightish. While I appreciate a nice stick of wood, the cost of what I would call a stick of wood worthy to be toted around is rather prohibitive as is the cost of having a sharp smith do his magic on it to turn it into something decent. Plus, I prefer "African Walnut" (fiberglass) cause it's tougher, holds zero better, and gives me a nice weight forward feel that I love. I want the weight out front not towards the rear. As to the weight savings, I don't have any want/need and or desire to have the lightest rig. 4 me...something that is over 7.5 lbs and no more than 8 lbs all up (scope, rounds, sling) and with a tube .6" to .62" at the mzl is just right for me. Bottom line, I feel I can take 2K and have any # of decent smiths do their magic on it (using a pre64/70 or a G33) and have what I feel is the finest working rifles going. They feel great when I run them (and to me that's important with the tiny artistic side that I have), they're tough, work well, feed incredibly well and so on and so on. What's gonna compete with that 4 me? A 700 in a piece of African walnut works (I've hunted my old Mashburn 700 very hard and am my 8th tube and about ready for the 9th so I sort of have some experience with this) but it feels like a shovel when running it. but it is cost effective and it works! How about a Montana, once again it feels like a Shovel Plus P (a bit too much of a Mattel feel to me), and it's barrel at best is a crap shoot... How about a NULA for $3500 or whatever, once again it feels like a shovel Plus P when I run it (which by my way of thiniing means it works, may feed well enough but doesn't feel very good to me while running it, just utilitarian). Now I'm not saying it doesn't run and feed, I'm just saying that for me I don't like how it feels too much like a 700 4 me to really likey. The bolt handle is tiny and feels like a raisen to me and the idea of having a Douglas barrel on a high end semi custom kind of gags me as well. And yeah I get it that they do have some Douglas tubes that shoot well and last, I also get it that the vast majority of the NULA customers aren't running them very hard hence their standards are a bit, dare I say low...ouch I know roast me for that one but I find it a lot like Wby owners and many of them. Bottom line, we need to use what we want. People try hard to make this crapola rocket science and yet we'd never dare to try and pick out the perfecto woman for one another.. Use what works for you, I could really care less. I only care and hope that you actually get out there and use it! Have a super day and get to the hill and fill up an ark or two..  Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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so all the hoopla over the g33/40 is 3 oz,?!?!??! 3 freaking ounces???? are you kidding me??? that proves it right there gun people are loonies.
I think building on any mauser is crazy especially these days, just go buy a brand new winchester or even a ruger, it has all the features the mauser has and then some, 3 pos safety, hinging bottom metal, more scope mount options.
the dirty secret about alot of customs is they don't shoot as good as factory rifles in alot of cases but no one on the internet will tell you that. after 3 customs and thousands of $$$$ spent on them, I am done. I will just buy a factory rifle and if doesn't shoot buy another one, till I find one that shoots to my standards. It will be alot cheaper in the end. Sounds like your choices in 'smiths, sucks.
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so all the hoopla over the g33/40 is 3 oz,?!?!??! 3 freaking ounces???? are you kidding me??? that proves it right there gun people are loonies.
I think building on any mauser is crazy especially these days, just go buy a brand new winchester or even a ruger, it has all the features the mauser has and then some, 3 pos safety, hinging bottom metal, more scope mount options.
the dirty secret about alot of customs is they don't shoot as good as factory rifles in alot of cases but no one on the internet will tell you that. after 3 customs and thousands of $$$$ spent on them, I am done. I will just buy a factory rifle and if doesn't shoot buy another one, till I find one that shoots to my standards. It will be alot cheaper in the end. Sounds like your choices in 'smiths, sucks. Nahhh . . . . He is just gonna buy a Savage . . . . . . BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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so all the hoopla over the g33/40 is 3 oz,?!?!??! 3 freaking ounces???? are you kidding me??? that proves it right there gun people are loonies.
I think building on any mauser is crazy especially these days, just go buy a brand new winchester or even a ruger, it has all the features the mauser has and then some, 3 pos safety, hinging bottom metal, more scope mount options.
the dirty secret about alot of customs is they don't shoot as good as factory rifles in alot of cases but no one on the internet will tell you that. after 3 customs and thousands of $$$$ spent on them, I am done. I will just buy a factory rifle and if doesn't shoot buy another one, till I find one that shoots to my standards. It will be alot cheaper in the end. To paraphrase the oft spoken quote about Harley Davidson : "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand anyway!" but then, I'm nearing the end of my 6th decade on this here Earth.... Likely I come from a different generation than you... (No offense meant)  GH
"As you walk thru life, don't be surprised that there are fewer people that you encounter seeking truth than those seeking confirmation of what they already believe!"
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Alright Men:
I got the G33/40 as a complete rifle with a beautiful wood stock (too short for me and not enough drop in heel) in caliber 6.5-06. I forgot the action was already blueprinted, and if I remember correctly the G33/40 does not need heat treating as some of the 98K's do, however that will be double checked. It has only been fired a few times and an accurate load has not been determined yet. It is blued very nicely.
The price was $600.00. Some people say that the tulsa area has a gunsmith on every corner. Our gun shows are so awesome.
I bought it from one of my gunsmiths who just refuses to charge high prices. I previewed before opening the day before and found it. He does work for some of the better known gunsmiths
out of his home shop. He especially likes the 280 Akley improved
which I would choose, but times are getting tough, don't reload, so I'm going for standard calibers.
Anyway. My question is still not answered. Can a #2 contour in 270 be plenty accurate in a 24 inch barrel or should I go for a #3 contour. Since this is for hunting, can't see shooting more than two or three shots at a time.
Matt
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....... My question is still not answered. Can a #2 contour in 270 be plenty accurate in a 24 inch barrel or should I go for a #3 contour. Since this is for hunting, can't see shooting more than two or three shots at a time.
Matt Matt: OK I'll go out on a limb and say "yes",a #2 should be fine. I have had quite a few 270 barrels of #1 contour(mostly Krieger),along with M70 FW contours(factory and Douglas)that easily stayed under an inch,and some substantially better than that.Several would cluster shots. Also had #2's chambered for 7RM that shot very tight groups as well. I think you will be fine with a #2.Personally,unless it was intended for varmints,I wouldn't want a barrel any heavier than a #2 on a 270 for hunting.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Eldorado.....you are on the right track.
Naysayers, if you don't like the G33/40.....then buy a Brno Model 21 and have the whole kit and caboodle at once.
...or you can go to the next tupperware meeting and bitch at the other women, for God knows that you do not deserve the pleasure of owning fine equipment.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Two things I find really amazing is just how good the Mausers are and how good the pre 64/70's are. And then to think how much older they are and how far ahead those designs were b4 there time amazes me as well. I'd be for betting that in this world, and in this market that one could find (with some searching) a decent G33/40 for $700-$800. It may take a while but I bet it could be done. By my way of thinking, the best running rigs I've ever been around (taking into account, how they feel when worked, how they feed, and good things like that) have been by far good Mausers and the Pre 64/70's. The only rigs I've been around that come even close to these are one of Tom Burgess works of art around a Enfield. A couple friends of mine had Tom build them 416 Rigby's and they were totally incredible. Of course, so was the price at 5K plus over a decade ago (for the barreled action)... D'Arcy's Legend, and Millers Marksmen and Simillions rigs come to mind as well and are super stars as well but then the price is as well..and way above my pay grade! Nope for me I like the Pre 64/70 with a lightish barrel and or the G33/40 with a lightish. While I appreciate a nice stick of wood, the cost of what I would call a stick of wood worthy to be toted around is rather prohibitive as is the cost of having a sharp smith do his magic on it to turn it into something decent. Plus, I prefer "African Walnut" (fiberglass) cause it's tougher, holds zero better, and gives me a nice weight forward feel that I love. I want the weight out front not towards the rear. As to the weight savings, I don't have any want/need and or desire to have the lightest rig. 4 me...something that is over 7.5 lbs and no more than 8 lbs all up (scope, rounds, sling) and with a tube .6" to .62" at the mzl is just right for me. Bottom line, I feel I can take 2K and have any # of decent smiths do their magic on it (using a pre64/70 or a G33) and have what I feel is the finest working rifles going. They feel great when I run them (and to me that's important with the tiny artistic side that I have), they're tough, work well, feed incredibly well and so on and so on. What's gonna compete with that 4 me? A 700 in a piece of African walnut works (I've hunted my old Mashburn 700 very hard and am my 8th tube and about ready for the 9th so I sort of have some experience with this) but it feels like a shovel when running it. but it is cost effective and it works! How about a Montana, once again it feels like a Shovel Plus P (a bit too much of a Mattel feel to me), and it's barrel at best is a crap shoot... How about a NULA for $3500 or whatever, once again it feels like a shovel Plus P when I run it (which by my way of thiniing means it works, may feed well enough but doesn't feel very good to me while running it, just utilitarian). Now I'm not saying it doesn't run and feed, I'm just saying that for me I don't like how it feels too much like a 700 4 me to really likey. The bolt handle is tiny and feels like a raisen to me and the idea of having a Douglas barrel on a high end semi custom kind of gags me as well. And yeah I get it that they do have some Douglas tubes that shoot well and last, I also get it that the vast majority of the NULA customers aren't running them very hard hence their standards are a bit, dare I say low...ouch I know roast me for that one but I find it a lot like Wby owners and many of them. Bottom line, we need to use what we want. People try hard to make this crapola rocket science and yet we'd never dare to try and pick out the perfecto woman for one another.. Use what works for you, I could really care less. I only care and hope that you actually get out there and use it! Have a super day and get to the hill and fill up an ark or two.. Dober I agree with this....damn near, just about,every single word.Not that it matters a whit..... I have heard tell of those Enfields by Burgess but never had the pleasure of running one of them.But I did have a 300 Win Mag on a 1909 Argentine built by Burgess with stock by Maurice Ottmar....first time I ran it with a full magazine and chambered round number two,I thought the bolt overrode the next cartridge,so I opened the bolt expecting an empty chamber....no chance...it was "hot"...not many metal guys like Burgess....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I held a G33/40 last week that was a work of art, can't fault anyone for going that way if they want. I would have bought that rifle for 6 bills in a heart beat, stock length be damn.
I just shipped a HVA smll ring to CAS to be laid into a McMillan Sako Hunter pattern with edge. For cheap the HVA has a whole lot to offer with much of the work already done to it. However $600 for you got is a screaming deal. For what it's worth I've been picking up the HVA for ~$300 for barreled action.
I would have no trouble with a #2 in .270. Also thought that the weight savings of a G33/40 was close to 8 oz. over a standard large ring? Is that not right, 3 doesn't seem like enough.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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so all the hoopla over the g33/40 is 3 oz,?!?!??! 3 freaking ounces???? are you kidding me??? that proves it right there gun people are loonies.
I think building on any mauser is crazy especially these days, just go buy a brand new winchester or even a ruger, it has all the features the mauser has and then some, 3 pos safety, hinging bottom metal, more scope mount options.
the dirty secret about alot of customs is they don't shoot as good as factory rifles in alot of cases but no one on the internet will tell you that. after 3 customs and thousands of $$$$ spent on them, I am done. I will just buy a factory rifle and if doesn't shoot buy another one, till I find one that shoots to my standards. It will be alot cheaper in the end. Cummins you are about half right and half off base IMHO of course... .....first off the Hoopla was because back "when",there were no actions that were CRF and as light as a G33/40,and it was the darling of the custom rifle trade,and many Mausers were used to build rifles..Things have changed and maybe for the better,and maybe not. Yes, you can have some of the features of a Mauser in a M70(which is more like a Springfield/Mauser hybrid).And of course it depends on "which" M70 you're discussing. FYI the Mauser,not the M70,had the original 3 position safety(it just swung up over the top instead of on the side;or on top of the cocking piece in the pre war M70. The Ruger is only superficially a Mauser derivative. If you think a M70 of any vintage,or a Ruger has "more features"than a Mauser 98,well...you're wrong. Please go read a few books because I don't have time to explain them all to you..... Yes it is easier to build on a M70 because there is less work involved in the action....but you can build on a million M70's and you still won't have all the features of a Mauser.But for guys that know the differences, it may be important to them,which is why they do it. As for the "dirty secret" about customs not shooting better than factory rifles,it depends on who is building them.....and "which" factory rifle you are comparing them to....all I can say is I suspect you have been seriously hosed by cutom smiths a few times if you believe that. I also might add that the sole function of a rifle is not to just shoot tiny groups...but that fact is lost on many today,as evidenced by some of the incredible crap out there called "good" by some because they will bug hole a few times over sandbags at 100 yards.....big friggin' deal.... If they came out with all the features of a Mauser 98,today,brand new,in say titanium,at an affordable price,the minions would beall over them like a cheap suit....unfortunately this will never happen,bevause like Texas Rick says,most of the "improvements" we have seen in rifle building were concessions made to make them cheaper,and not necessarily "better". There, I feel better now.....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Matt:
I agree with Bob on the barrels. Like him, I use either a #1 or #2 taper on my hunting rifles. All shoot sub-MOA and most are well under that. Several of the best shooting rifles that my two offspring and I own are built on Mauser actions. The most accurate hunting rifle I own is built on a FN action with a #2 Brux barrel. To answer your question as to a #2 barrel in 270 working on a Mauser action, you bet. My son has a military Mauser action with a #1 contour barrel that is sub-MOA by a good margin. Just this week I shot one for the first time that I bought here a while back that was put together on a FN Mauser action with a 25-inch #2 Shelin SS barrel housed in one of Dober's African walnut stocks and it touched bullet holes at 100 yards.
I really like the 700 action, but a Mauser put together by a competent gunsmith is as fine a rifle as you can go own. One put together by a hack is just that, a hack job. And when that happens, the make of the action is really a moot point.
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Bob,
Very, very well said!
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