Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Building rifle on G33/40 action!

Jesus Bob.....I like your attitude.

Thanks for the post, Bob.

I was going to write a medium-long post, listing and describing the advantages the 98 Mauser has over every other bolt-action invented since for our friend cumminscowboy. But your advice for him to actually do some reading, and thus fill in the enormous gaps in his knowledge, is much better.

As I have pointed out before on this forum, there are many who log on here whose knowledge of rifles and firearms history goes back no further than when they started to shoot--and apparently some started to shoot around Y2K.

Excellent, Bob! I am very reluctant to come on here and pretend that I have the way, the truth, and the light. It is great that we can all make our own choices. As for me, I am delighted and feel very lucky to have two rifles on G33/40 actions, and with nice wood to boot.

I have owned mausers and read about them so the model 70 doesn't have a 3rd lug and it doesn't handle gas as well. I am missing other features?? the mauser will have inferior metallurgy in alot of cases, its not drilled and tapped, it will most likely have a sloppy feeling bolt, unless its a commercial action like a husky or FN. it doesn't come with decent bottom metal already in most cases. the safety will have to be altered, to the style the model 70 already has. the bolt will have to be bent or rewelded and replaced. its not 1950 anymore a mauser is not $10 bucks, its several hundred now, and better hunting rifles have been produced since.

so with all that said, when it comes to a hunting rifle that is functional makes some since at building, seems to be most people are trying to imitate the features the model 70 already has. so if a 3rd lug and better gas handling is more important to you than, having to reweld the bolt, drill and tap it, reheat treat it, find bottom metal, change the safety, I suppose one should go with the mauser.

That was gracious of you trucker.....now explain to me why anyone would even want to heat-treat a G33/40?

I consider the G33-40 the ultimate rifle action for any standard 06 length caliber, short of a Brno mod. 21 or 22, and the Brnos are many times more expensive to convert.

To start with the G33-40 is a small ring action and that slims up the gun and cuts down on weight, they turn out lean and mean..Also its one Mauser that does not need to be heat treated, its good to good as is...

I cannot imagine a nicer rifle than a G33-40 in 7x57 in a manlicher or short forend African style stock of high grade Circasian walnut, however I am of the opinnion that putting a G33-40 into a plastic stock is akin to Sodomy or incest! ...

About everything else has been covered in the above posts.

I have never felt the need to convert my 7x57 1949 Model 21 to anything, thank you.

And I am well aware of the attributes of the G33/40.....so you may stop preaching to the choir.

Cummins I completely get where you are coming from...I love the old M70 as it is one of the great actions but has some faults beyond the conveniences that it affords for a contemporary sporting rifle action.It is true that it has some advantages over a Mauser for building a sporetr but that doe snot keep it from being in some ways inferior.

Yes there are more differences than you state.There are many on here who know Mausers better than I(JB included) but I will try to explain some more:

There is the guide rib on the bolt body, which fits into a corresponding groove in the inside of the receiver bridge to ease operation.

There is a tongue, or hook,at the head of the extractor which fits a corresponding groove around the head of the bolt.Its' function is, that in the event of a stuck, oversized or dirty case,the harder one pulls on the bolt, the tighter this tongue grips the groove.This prevents the extractor from pulling over the case head;at the same time(part of the SYSTEM), the wide bite of the extractor keeps it from pulling through the soft rim of the case(hopefully),leaving a stuck case in the chamber.In a Model &0,the tension exerted on the rim is entirely dependant on the spring steel extractor without support like the Mauser provides(see above),so a M70 could, theoretically,"jump" the case rim and leave a fired case stuck in the chamber.We know the M70 certainly works well enough under tough conditions but it can be argued the Mauser system is superior.

The M70 relies for ejection on a pivoting arm (ejector blade)which rises up into a slot located on the underside of the bolt from a tiny spring.If that slot gets dirty, gummy, frozen,that tiny spring can fail to force the ejector blade up and when the bolt is withdrawn quickly COULD leave you with a case sitting on the bolt face.You push forward, stripping another cartridge and you have a jam.This is not good.The Mauser, OTOH,has an ejector blade that pivots into a recess, but relies only on this pivoting action(don't know how to explain this)to force the ejector into the slot to kick the case out.Again maybe a bit more reliable under really tough dirty conditions.

On the M70, there is a small projection on the underside of the cocking piece which bears against the camming surfaces of the bolt body.My gunsmith has a box full of these that snapped off of M70's used in highpower matches.It takes much use and abuse for this to happen but it does occur now and then.

The plunger to dissassemble the bolt is likely a better, tougher design than the M70...I had a finely polished and honed action on a Griffin and Howe 338 built on a pre 64 action;it had been so finely tuned that the side wall of the cocking piece gave out and the whole plunger unit came out, tiny spring and all. The plunger arrangement on the Mause is far more robust.

The sloppy bolt travel on the Mauser is intentional;made that way on purpose so that fine grit,ands, snow and ice will not prevent bolt manipulation,at least in theory.Lets say it has to get really bad for a Mauser to quit. I have had the M70 keep trucking under conditions that seized up other actions on two companions at the same time.So the M70 is no slouch here, but I suspect a Mauser will hndle more dirt and grime and keep trucking,mostly because the M70 bolt travel is just tighter.

The original military Mauser trigger is double stage rugged, simple,and superb, utter simplicity,as is the M70,which is single stage.Both require the removal of minimal wood to function well and neither require the removal of the amount of wood that an aftermarket trigger does,making for a stronger stock in that area.This may not be as important with synthetics as it was when both these actions were designed....I often think that the ultimate BG stopping rifle should have the Mauser military trigger because it is so rock-stupid simple and reliable.

On the Mauser,nside the bolt body is a groove through which fits the head of the firing pin;unless the rifle is in full battery,with the bolt handle fully down, this arrangment prevents the firing pin from moving forward,which means no weak strike of firing pin on primer.To my knowledge a M70 has no similar arrangement.I have a friend who last fall fired at a buck with his Rem 700 while the bolt handle was partially raised....a weak tap and no ignition...hence, no buck...shidt happens.....

Then there is the breaching system which encloses more of the case hed within the barrel than even the vaunted and innovative Rem 700......we KNOW the Mauser beats the M70 hands down in that department....,things are what they are.....

There are no doubt other things I forgot or never knew.....

I guess some Mausers need heat treatment...so be it,a labor and cost of love;and yes they need a lot of coddling and expense to make them first class sporting rifles.But the superb design is there,really unequalled in sporting arms.And when I think of Mausers(and pre war M70's and Mannlicher Shoenauers(sp)for that matter) I think of craftsmen in greasy aprons with tiny tools paying great attention to small details who had to apprentice for years before they were allowed to touch them and work on them......

OTOH when I think of some of todays sporting rifles I think of Harvard B-Scool grads and efficiency experts brought on board to figure ways to make them cheaper.....because they learned in school they will sell to schmucks....and what the hell do we know.....

Thnaks to JB an all others for the kind comments

We are here to exchange info and ideas.

You covered it quite well, Bob.

I would like to make some further comments:

The M70 safety is merely a variation on the 98's, with the safety working horizontally rather than vertically. There are some people who don't feel the Model 70 safety is the answer to everything, despite the very long push needed to go from safe-and-locked to fire. Yes, the M70's safety can be pushed to the middle position, where it's easier to work quickly, but then there's the risk of the rifle not firing if the bolt handle isn't fully down. The 98, on the other hand, can easily (and cheaply) be fitted with a vertical safety that works under a scope that merely requires one simple, downward movement to go from locked to fire.

The military form of Mauser bottom metal is one-piece and absolutely reliable, one reason some people prefer it to any hinged floorplate even on sporters. My own .338 is built on an FN action with their civilizan version of the 98 floorplate, and I deliberately did NOT replace it--but did replace the FN trigger with a 98 military trigger converted to single-stage. This cost about 10 bucks.

Essentially both the safety and bottom metal are cosmetic differences between the 98 and M70. Bolt handles and drilling and tapping are cheap and easy to do, and don't even have to be done on commercial 98's.

In finishing I must also point out that some people, including Jeff Cooper and even me, don't think all that much of the vaunted Model 70 safety. Jeff preferred the safety on the 1917 Enfield, since it was much easier to operate and didn't stick out nearly as far as the Model 70 safety. And yes, it also held back the firing pin--as does the CZ 550 safety, which is very similar to 1917's.

Yet people who have been brainwashed about Model 70 safeties go to great expense to replace the very fine CZ and 1917 safeties with Model 70 safeties, which to me is yet another piece of evidence that most shooters don't really understand how rifles function, and instead blindly follow whatever cult is popular.

Couldn't agree more about the drawbacks of the M70 safety or the benefits of the 1917 safety.

I don;t really agree that cults and brainwashing are the reasons people convert CZ's and 98's to Model 70 type safeties.

Could it be that they prefer or are familiar to the feel and look?, and understand rifle function just fine?

Are you sure that is true?

I would like to hear specifics in defense of that statement.

If it wasn�t for the �requirement� of a scope would half or even all of the things done to a military Mauser need to be done to convert it to a sporter?

A fellow at the range a few weeks ago had a sporterized K98. All that had really been done was to take off the handguard and shape the forend to more of an African or British style. Whoever did it did a very nice job as it was a graceful and slender thing, he even left the barrel band in place. I think the rear sight was removed or replaced but don�t really remember. The caliber was the original 8X57.

My friend Bill bought one of the K-98�s my father brought back from WWII. The stock had been broken on that one at the pistol grip when the German soldier surrendered. All Bill did was buy a replacement Fajen stock and then went out and used it.

I know scopes are de rigueur these days, but I think a stock military Mauser of whatever variety with a good peep would still work about as well as anything for a practical hunting rifle. Without scope and mounts you could keep the weight down and the sighting system would not have handicapped me at the ranges and times of day I�ve taken all my game.

Bob and JB, thank you for taking the time to write that explanation.

bob, thanks for educating me that was cool. but what you described to me is a superior battle/military rifle. I have never had a stuck case in any gun provided the gun was fired with a load that was in the right pressure range. I don't stick muddy or dirty ammo in any of my hunting rifles. I clean my guns so the spring on the ejector is not gummed up. all the benefits the mauser has is oriented toward working in battle and under those conditions. for a guy that has spent several thousand $$$ on a custom mauser, will he ever stick dirty ammo in it, we he drop it in the mud and then without cleaning it go shoot it. will he maintain it so terrible that the ejector spring gums up?? we he shoot it so much the superior stronger cocking piece is needed to keep from braking? I think we all can say no on all counts, and that the real benfits of the mauser is when the gun is abused, neglected, and has to keep firing in battle conditions. none of these conditions happen to a expensive walnut stocked, converted, thousands spent on the rifle mauser.

Here's one that has (as far as I can tell) most of the original features Mauser designed into it and it seems to have worked okay for the owner for several years.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...2637106/1/Osa_Johnson_s_Oberndorf_Mauser

I was cheating a bit there as most people really don't subject their rifles to the kinds of hunting conditions that a lot of people put up with for a long time.

They take them out of the case, maybe pack them in for a couple of weeks at a time on a really long hunt, then bring them back out. No one except possibly Alaskan guide types really have to keep their rifles out in the mud and blood for weeks and weeks at a time.

At every gunshow I still look for that table with all of the left hand Mauser 98's. Maybe someday...

What about someone who prefers a 98 over anything else, and has no logical explanation as to why other than that is what I want?

Sure, it would be expensive at today's prices to install a M70 type safety, new trigger, drill and tap, bend bolt, but so what, if that is what you want and can afford it?

Cummins you and jim In Idaho hit the nail squarely on the head and many of us don't subject a rifle to a lot of field abuse;and we cann hunt a lifetime and not have to operate a bolt fast enough,or depnd on a rifle to keep a Cape Buffalo or Brown Bear off our belt buckle,so lots of systems and actions work just fine for us....but then again,many do hunt frozen, wet,nasty conditions,trudge through sandy desert, drop rifles in dirt or otherwise end up in conditions that can shut a rifle down.

Here in the big woods of Maine I watched an afternoon and evening of trudging through deep snow and freezing temps shut down two rifle so that neither one would fire...at all.They were not Mausers.

Some, being aware of this might figure that the cost is worth it to have the most rugged design they can find;and make no mistake that a lot of experienced traveling trophy hunters world wide depended on fine wood stocked custom rifles in decades past, simply because those rifles represented the best technology available at the time...Warren Page and Bob Hagel hunted far and wide with wood stocked 7 Mashburns,both built on FN Supreme Mauser 98's,Page's built from the ground up by Mashburn Arms...there are many other examples from years past.Even Eleanor O'Connor hunted the world with a little 7x57 on a small ring Mauser stocked by Russ Leonard.So some of these rifle stook a lot of travel and abuse even though they are by todays standarsd high end wood stocked cutoms.



Jim62,others may explain it better than I but the way I understand it the publicized "3 Rings of Steel" of the M700 requires that the head of the cartridge protrude further from the barrel in order to allow enough room for the nose of the bolt to fully encircle the case head,and the extractor to engage the rim of the case.And adequate clearance has to be built in to allow the system to function.

This condition does not exist with the Mauser,and more of the case is supported by the barrel with the Mauser,with the extractor still able to engage the rim of the case for extraction.

I was told this a long time ago by a riflesmith in our area, and have seen the same thing in print several times since.Sorry I cannot supply exact dimensions on this.

Maybe Greydog or another of the Mauser experts on here can explain it better