Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 35 Whelen Failure

. Gee, all that speed with what amounts to popcorn fart powder charges for a 338 with 250s. I like the Whelen a ton, but only by going to the 9.3 are you going to get close to a 338. Capacity always rules. Unless we are content ignore some physics.
I shoot a long throated Whelen, but it is still a good 200 fps behind a 338 and critters don't like either one about the same.

On a side note I visited 2 gun stores today (Cabelas was one), not a single 223, 204, 22/250 or 17 anything (besides HMR) was to be found in a bolt action rifle. Not a single stinking rifle out of probably 250 rifles I saw today.

Of course I could have filled the bed of my truck with 270, 300WSM, 30/06 and 300 Win Mag. WTF

Well, you did go to a Cabelas....

I'm sure they were flush with camo panties and shotshell koozies that said Cabelas on them....

I'll take the bait. Why wouldn't that equate to a 30-06 ?

Reloader28

I believe they're funnin' ya.

Landrum

It does. That's the joke.

A factory 338Win 250gr bullet runs 2660fps, my whelen runs 2684fps with 250gr Barnes FXB's my 370 sako runs a 250gr Accubond 2650fps, factory duplicate load in a 2" shorter barrel, results on game are the same. The 338,358 and 366' diameter bullets will all exit on a broad side shot on a medium sized bull moose. The added frontal area causes more distruction on the way through, however. with these penetration is not an issue so more frontal area is better

It's obvious that the 35 Whelen's lack of endurance is due to the public realizing that the 358 Norma was a clearly superior choice. JMO, Dutch.

To add to this insanity, now that a hunter can use a .35Whelan during "primitive" season here in Miss, you can find ammo in even little stores. There was such a run on barrels for the Encore you couldn't even find then and when you could they brought a premium. BTW I hunt with a .222mag also. Guess I'm just outa-touch...

So we are comparing factory to reloads, exceptional reloads at that.

I dunno about moose, but I've seen the 250 Partition 358 not exit a hog 3 out of 4 shots. I've never recovered a 250 Nosler 338, but I don't think that really matters....

The whole frontal area on expanding bullets seems silly to me, especially when we are going up one caliber. Do you measure recovered bullets, the bullet path or what? Bear in mind tissue displacement is greater for faster moving bullets.

Only one question: if I poured in said powder charges in a 338 WM and topped it with the same weight bullet, is it going to go faster or slower in a 338?

Hawk1;

Your last question doesn't make sense... you may want to reword it!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I've owned a couple of .338WM's, a .35 Whelen and 2 .350 Rem mags. There are a lot of variables to consider in handloads... for example: length of throat, barrel length, magazine length, tightness of chamber and bore, etc.

My first .338 was a SAKO full-stock carbine with 20" barrel. Really pushing it with RL-22, 2675 fps was possible from some 250s. 2800 was max from 225s. The Browning A-Bolt with a 26" tube was a far different story! With a book load of RL-19 it easily made 2840 fps from the 250 Hornady SP and shot into .75 MOA!

All of my .35s were Remingtons with 22" tubes: The Whelen from RL-15 could quite easily do 2635 fps, and one .350RM consistently made 2710 fps and shot into .5 to .75 MOA! Those were 250gr loads. 2800 fps was normal for the 225 NP from both the Whelen and the fast .350. That's from the FWIW dept'

I prefer the .35's for reasons already mentioned by others.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

Bob, your right, it DOESN't make sense. His 35 Whelen loads exceed powder charges for even the 338!

What I'm trying to say is, for an entrepreneur (not me!), 2,900 should be feasible from a 338; it has more powder capacity than a 35 Whelen, much as I like it, long throated or other wise.

I have had no troubles loading two 24" bbl 338's to 2,800, but that's about as far as I'd take it. Loading it to equal a 340 WBY only proves I can pour more powder in....

Same powder charge same bullet weight, the smaller combustion chamber will have a higher pressure. is that additional pressure going to drive that bullet faster...........I don't know. The cartridge case is the combustion chamber but also the barrel forms part of it as well as the ever expanding gases continue down the barrel behind the bullet the larger bore will have greater volume, thus containing energy at a lower pressure, if you want to up the pressure you must up the energy. Anyway, it is well known that a normal 35whelen ( minimum dimensions)will run a 250gr bullet to 2600fps and a 225gr bullet to 2800fps. that is squarely in 338win Mag territory. And, you have the ability to use necked up 30-06 lapua brass for the 35, oopps did I say that outloud!

Furprick,

I still see it as 200 fps (not that it matters to critters) if both are handloaded, which both need to be. Not handloaded, the 338 beats up the Whelen due to factory pressure differences and of course, more case capacity.

Note that "contained energy at lower pressure" also has a powder burn rate to consider.

The "frontal area" argument is just that, a 270 v 280 argument, using same/same bullets.

For game shooting I doubt much could be gained or lost by using either; for speed, ballistics and long range the 338 always wins, by numbers.

Have you tried the Norma 35 Whelen cases?

not the Norma cases just lapua 30-06 run through the 35W die.I agree, by the numbers and at the same pressure the 338 trumps the whelen in velocity for a given bullet weight. The 270-280 arguement is just so much noise on deer sized game,both kil equally as well and trajectory differances are small, when shooting big moose, bears and the like the 280 is superior to the 270 on virtue of heavier available bullets = more penetration. In the mediums >30 and <40 with a bullet weight that will penetrate the animal through and through then frontal area becomes a factor in upping the performance....bigger hole. I have only killed a few moose and several bbears with the 338, which I gave up most of 2 decades ago for the whelen. my cousin uses a 338W for elk and g-bears for the most part and has had nothing but success with that caliber (225gr TSX @ 2750fps). the 35 whelen is not a 'looser' cartridge, its a waste on deer but comes into its own when large tough animals are encountered or very useful hunting deer in big bear country, in central BC there is a bear of some sort behind every tree it seems.thanks for allowing a healthy discussion on these two worthy cartridges. Plus I hand load all cartridges and the 338w is just too main stream....

I think the type of bullet used will have more of a bearing on frontal area and the wound channel diameter than one caliber of bullet.

When going the similar S.D. route, about another 100 fps can be gained from the 338 belted case (a 200-215 338 can safely near or hit 3,000 fps v. a 225 358; or a 225 338 at 2,950 v. a 250 358).

I've seen too many lower SD bullets out penetrate higher SD bullets to buy into the SD arguement. Bullet construction and design have a much larger bearing on penetration

I went right to the .250 whelen for this year hunting.

I see, you are going to focus on rabbits this year.