Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR 30-30 questions for BPCR

Hey black powder gurus:

Let's assume that I have a 30-30 project in the works and it will be destined for one bullet/charge combination.

What bullet type, powder, and barrel length would you recommend for a utility 30-30WCF, that may see service as a boar gun and a deer rifle. Max range 100yds.

This will go in a brake action type of gun.

I think the barrels are 12 twist, ITMAD.

Don't ask the BP gurus. The .30-30 never was a bp cartridge and does not do particularly well as one. If I were going to try to fake it, I would use all the 3fg I could drop tube into it, compress to the bottom of the neck, add a wad and seat bullet).

A bp loaded .30-30 would be a pretty marginal hog rifle in my estimation. I may be wrong about that, but that's where I stand now.

A .38-55 or better might work. Even a .32-40 perhaps. But I would look for at least a .38-55 myself.

trying to be nicer, so I removed sarcasm...


Anyway, I was always impressed with 30 cal bullets from a 30-30 for black bear, not sure I would marginalize them for boar - unless its the BP pressure that would inhibit that train a thought.

thinking of a 38-55 for the next build (see sig line)

So, 30 cal in BP - bad idea?

Well, I think a .30 cal in a strongly bottlenecked cartridge is going to be a real challenge to get to do what you want, and not best for biggish creatures if you ever get it sufficiently accurate. Not saying impossible, but just not a great launch point, even for those with some experience. The .28-30 might be a bit better as it is straight cased, but darn small in my mind. But I might be wrong there. I've not used one.

I think the .30-30 is one of the more unappreciated smokeless cartridges. It was a good elk rifle, and still is, in my opinion, but not so hot as a bp cartridge.

You might go to bpcr.net and see what some others have to say. There is not much traffic here.

Can't see sig lines (not even my own )

30 wcf (30-30 to the unwashed) was the first successfull SMOKELESS winchester cartridge.
You can load it with black but accruacy is hard to come by, fouling is a nightmare.
Run it with rl15 and speer jacketed bullets for hunting,and .311 diameter cast bullets with 5744 for cast bullets.

Funny that the 32 Winchester Special was designed to be loaded with either black or smokeless......
You're just gonna have a very low powered 94/336 that is a royal pain to clean.

read the OP. It's going in a break action.


Anyway - I think ya'll have me off the BP. We'll start the post elsewhere and see what the general recs are.

Sorry Bosslady but that's just internet legend that like alot of internet legends is horsepucky.
Here's what Winchester said about their new 32 special cartridge in 1915

Sorry Ranch13, but that may but what Winchester said in 1915, but Winchester's first mention of the 32 Special was in their catalog # 68, 1902, 13 years earlier than your 1915 edition.

It says: "The 32 Winchester Special Cartridge is offered to meet the demand of many sportsmen for a smokeless powder cartridge of larger caliber than the .30 Winchester and yet not so powerful as the .30 US Army, and which could be loaded with black powder and give satisfactory results. The .32 Winchester Special Cartridge meets all these requirements." Farther on the same catalog states "With a charge of 40 grains of black powder, the .32 Winchester Special develops a velocity of 1385 foot seconds, which makes it a powerful black powder cartridge."

So, it's not internet legend nor is it horsepucky.

Craigster, lets see it..... Until then it's the same as the same ol regurgitated stuff..aka horsepucky
Even if they did suggest a bp load for the cartridge, they stated in both books it's a smokeless cartridge to be bigger than the 30wcf but not as powerful as the 30 US.....

What part of the catalog description don't you understand? It clearly states that the 32 Spl was a smokeless powder cartridge that could be reloaded with black powder and give satifactory results. The fact that it's larger than the 30 WCF but less powerful that the 30 US has nothing to do with its' being able to be loaded with either smokeless or black. That is what you are reffering to as legend or HP, is it not?

Craigster, save your intelligence for those who can read (and might actually load BP cartridges).

Ask him about the ORIGINAL load in the 303 British ..... hint, it was not cordite.

His catalog must be right ..... it is newer!

From the LATEST Federal catalog:
4570AS
45-70 Government
300 / 19.44
Speer� Hot-Cor� HP
Power-Shok�

You'll note the 45-70 comes with smokeless powder and a 300 gr bullet.

Guess the 45-70 500 BP round used by the Infantry for decades was just "horsepucky" too.

Not exactly sure how in your ingorant little mind you got the 303 british or federal factory loads for the 45-70 tangled up with the misinformation you spread about the 32 special.
Now as to who loads and shoots real bp,,, hows about you come out from behind the fake name and such and lets go head to head down thru the score sheets at bpcr shoots this past season?????

Really from here eh ? Well I know the education system is not the greatest but here it is (keeping it easy).

- The 303 Brit was loaded with compressed BLACK powder when first on the scene and worked reasonably well. (As would the 32 Special).
- Because some catalog issued long after a cartridge appeared, does NOT mention BLACK powder, does not mean that the catalog is correct for the entire lifespan of the cartridge. (The Federal 45-70 listing).

Hope that clarifies the (apparently) far to subtle post for you.

Craigster had it right you were WRONG. It would be appropriate to acknowledge that and thank him for informing you of the truth rather than trying to "shoot the messenger" and just looking foolish.

Well up until Craigster puts up the actual catalog and not some drivel in quotes , that misinformation you put out is still horsepuck.

Even if the stuf about blackpowder is in the 1902 catalog, the opening statements in both catalogs are still the same, and Winchester still stated the purpose of the cartrdige was a "smokeless" cartridge more powerful than the 30 wcf ,yet not as powerful as the 30 US.
So twist,bend and shape as you want. You're still wrong about the 32 special and offer no hard proof to show otherwise.

Don't hold your breath.

Yup , figured as much, don't have the hard proof to back up the words......

Ranch13,

One more time, just to make it clear, the 32Spl was new in 1902, not 1915.

The "drivel" included in my earlier post was from an article in Handloader Magazine (June 1999 #199) written by Gil Sengel. Regarding the 32Spl, he wrote, "As with other cartridges that fall into the obsolete category, there is a fair amount of suspect information regarding it's history. We will attemp to dispell this by reffering directly to Winchester catalogs whenever possible." If you'd like, I'd be happy to copy the article and send it to you. You might learn something.

An old guy once told me, don't argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. You may or may not be an idiot, but you have me wondering.

Craigster let us know when the source of your information settles on who and where?

What's to settle? Seems to me "the source of your information" as you say, has pretty much settled it.

PM me an address of some sort and I'll be happy to mail a copy of the article to it. Maybe you'll read it and grace us with a review.