Not crapping on you at all and if I gave that impression I apologize. Naval Air can't compete with AF's volume of sorties, no way, but that DEsert Storm Figure is deceiving but that's not the issue. What I was referring to was the number of times Navy Carriers responded to international crises during the post WWII era. Of course the AF flew more once the crap hit the fan. Like I said, two totally different missions, but take it from someone who was heavily involved in sorties flown vs turnaround time, the carrier Flex Deck has no equal. But in that regard where the AF has it all over a carrier is in SUSTAINABILITY. We are limited to the endurance of the flight deck crew (we Have only ONE Air Boss for example) and we can usually go for about 44-48 hrs before we just drop dead whereas the AF can go virtually forever from an unopposed Airfield.
It's all good, Jorge. Like I've said before, I got nothing but respect for you guys, but I'm going to defend my boys as well.
We used to have good pizzing matches like this on mids all the time. The pilot thing died down when Chief Kostek asked an AF guy to land on a carrier - at night in heavy seas.
I went to Lackland to go home (lived on base - backed up against the fence towards whatever it's called that fixes the big cargo planes these days) and to buy liquor. That was it.
Medina annex used to be very laid back, but that was when it was under Kelly AFB control. If I am guessing right, you were there after 1994? And thus it probably changed a lot when Lackland took over control of the annex. When it was ESC, it had good people and autonomy as it was it's own MAJCOM. When the AF reorganized, it lost it's MAJCOM status and with the technical closure of Kelly as an individual base, it fell under the evil eye of Sauron, err.. Lackland AKA Air Training Command.
We used to have good pizzing matches like this on mids all the time. The pilot thing died down when Chief Kostek asked an AF guy to land on a carrier - at night in heavy seas.
I'll tell you another fun story in my otherwise dull career. I was at the Dallas Safari Club convention with another Navy buddy of mine and Pugs. We were still Active Duty so we were there in our Mess Dress and as guests of some good people there. Well General Yeager is a fixture there and one of my heroes so we just had to meet him at the Bar. Naturally it didn't take long for the bantering to commence and the Good General was giving it to us right and left about all of his noteworthy accomplishments and yucking it up. Well it was time for a re-attack whereupon I asked the good General "say General how many traps you got?" "what's that?, none you say???, well sir, you can have my autograph if you wish"! We had a great time, took some pictures of all of us together and we still say hello every year at Dallas..
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Medina annex used to be very laid back, but that was when it was under Kelly AFB control. If I am guessing right, you were there after 1994? And thus it probably changed a lot when Lackland took over control of the annex. When it was ESC, it had good people and autonomy as it was it's own MAJCOM. When the AF reorganized, it lost it's MAJCOM status and with the technical closure of Kelly as an individual base, it fell under the evil eye of Sauron, err.. Lackland AKA Air Training Command.
For the most part the Annex was incredibly lax - I left there in 06 tho. It just seemed like the AF got crapped on by their own people the most for really stupid things. Like reflective belts on their PT gear - while those of us in the Navy wore whatever we wanted as PT wasn't considered part of our duty/watch and we were expected to do it as homework - so to speak.
Not crapping on you at all and if I gave that impression I apologize. Naval Air can't compete with AF's volume of sorties, no way, but that DEsert Storm Figure is deceiving but that's not the issue. What I was referring to was the number of times Navy Carriers responded to international crises during the post WWII era. Of course the AF flew more once the crap hit the fan. Like I said, two totally different missions, but take it from someone who was heavily involved in sorties flown vs turnaround time, the carrier Flex Deck has no equal. But in that regard where the AF has it all over a carrier is in SUSTAINABILITY. We are limited to the endurance of the flight deck crew (we Have only ONE Air Boss for example) and we can usually go for about 44-48 hrs before we just drop dead whereas the AF can go virtually forever from an unopposed Airfield.
We had our limits as well. In all of our NATO exercises we usually went 3-4 days 12/12's. We would invariably surge on the last day and all die from a nuke or chem/conv attack. But in reality, after all those sorties by day 3-4 we were dead, physically, from exercise attrition, mentally and running low on aircraft that were 100% operational. Course we had RF-4C's which were high maintenance and we didn't have the benefit of the reserves we would allegedly get in the real thing.
Course we weren't supposed to survive past 3-4 days anyways... We were the shock absorbers until the Cavalry arrived from CONUS.
For the most part the Annex was incredibly lax - I left there in 06 tho. It just seemed like the AF got crapped on by their own people the most for really stupid things. Like reflective belts on their PT gear - while those of us in the Navy wore whatever we wanted as PT wasn't considered part of our duty/watch and we were expected to do it as homework - so to speak.
See, that's training command crap. Dear lord... There is no such thing as PT on real Air Force bases. I played racquetball at lunch or went golfing on Friday afternoons or played pickup tackle football (against regs but who cared) on the weekends, but it had nothing to do with someone telling me to do it and we certainly never wore reflectors or PT gear.
I'll tell you another fun story in my otherwise dull career. I was at the Dallas Safari Club convention with another Navy buddy of mine and Pugs. We were still Active Duty so we were there in our Mess Dress and as guests of some good people there. Well General Yeager is a fixture there and one of my heroes so we just had to meet him at the Bar. Naturally it didn't take long for the bantering to commence and the Good General was giving it to us right and left about all of his noteworthy accomplishments and yucking it up. Well it was time for a re-attack whereupon I asked the good General "say General how many traps you got?" "what's that?, none you say???, well sir, you can have my autograph if you wish"! We had a great time, took some pictures of all of us together and we still say hello every year at Dallas..
Very cool. "Traps" I assume that's carrier landings? Yeager is a good man.
Teal: The AF is a hugely professional and smooth organization but it is just to rigid and top heavy (at least in my experience) for this old Navy puke. jorge
Jorge I totally agree with this statement.."rigid and top heavy" an understatement IMO especially in SEA in 69 - 70...AKA too many chiefs and no indians.I know it probably isn't that bad now because all branches are much more professional than in those days.
My whole experience was in ground attack/support and nothing else so I can't speak for the "Fast Mover" guys.Our mission was solely linked to who could get to the fight the quickest and save lives...our best buds were many carrier based A1's and cobra gunships...didn't make a dam difference to the guys on the ground about aircraft branch of service as long as there was ordinance being put on target.
We had a very fast turn around to rearm and refuel to get back in the fight..as fast as carrier ops I don't know but really apples and oranges....We all did our job and were proud of what we did...that I think was the bottom line..interservice rivilary always a fun topic but at the end of the day we're all on the same team.......FLEM
You better be afraid of a ghost!!
"Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops
Both the Swabbies and the Zoomies did right by us but I liked how easy it wuz to sell "genuine" gunshot.bloodstained VC battle flags to the Air Farce remfs at Pleiku Made enuff to get the whole platoon drunker than skunks
Last edited by EvilTwin; 09/13/10.
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
Nope!! However, most of us had periodic hospitalizations to repair leakage and would often stay overnite at Air Force and/or Navy bases travelling back to unit and the hospitality extended by both services to the groundpounders was absolutely without flaw or peer. It did appear however that we were looked at as if we wuz knuckle dragging trogdolytes
Be afraid,be VERY VERY afraid ad triarios redisse My Buddy eh76 speaks authentic Frontier Gibberish!
Great video and about covers it, except I didn't need to hear the editorail comments from that female Air Traffic Controller with NO CLUE as to what it takes to fly in that crap.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
It's bad enough to put up with the "Plat LSOs(Pilot, Landing Aid Television) in the ready room without getting critiqued by some female with no clue about why some poor sap trying to land at night on a pitching deck should have done better. STFU and get me a sandwich...jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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