Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Cheap Double Rifles Again???

The 450 #2 is a totally different cartridge. The only common measuremnent is the bore size. Rigby made the NE first(1898) the afterwards the #2 came in designed by Eley(1903)
The #2 is alot bigger thus lower pressure.
Look here for the measurements of the cases.

http://members.shaw.ca/cstein0/riflelist2.htm

edit; With the new brass by Jamison and Hornady the 450 NE is cheaper to shoot. The #2 has very spendy brass made by Bertram and Hornbearer I think.

I knew that - my only question was which of the two the gun was chambered for.

Sorry I misunderstood..

It's the 450 NE 3 1/4". Not the 3 1/2" #2

I believe that there's currently a Francotte .475 #2 in the Cabelas fine guns catalog; a bit above my touch. They have, however, discounted it from $27K to $24K, if that makes a difference ...

I have seen, a couple of times, working grade and well used double rifles in that caliber go for under $10,000 but I did not have $10,000 to spend. Still don't so no, a 'discount' down to merely $24,000 will not help me right now. Someday though.......

There are actually quite a few very nice new 9.3, 470 and 500 Merkels Chapuis and K-Guns for the 10K price tag.

There's also a newly listed Jeffery for a mere $37,999.

The word on the street direct from Italy and a call to the factory is the the 577 will not be made but the 600 will be in the woods by 2010. The cost will be about 5000 euros, about 7,490 USD today.

Not a Rolls Royce but hardly a Yugo either..

I think my preferred calibers would be:

9.3x74
.450/.400
.500/.416
.450 No. 2
.577 NE

If pushed came to shove, I'd really be torn between the .500/.416 and the .450 No. 2. I really like the additional velocity of the .500/.416, but the comparative practicality of the .450 No. 2 is very attractive. For a go-for-the-throat stopping rifle, the .577 looks very hard to beat.

Not that the manufacturer has contacted me on the subject.

Why would you want the 450 #2? It takes alot of dacron to fill the void, (IE; extra hassel). The 450 NE doesn't need it and the pressures are do-able. The results are the same. Although the case is more impressive looking.

Lol. You're right of course. But there's a certain charm to both the .450 No. 2 and the .475 No. 2.

Yah...Ok.. Charms fine but it's a PITA..

But it is fun to watch the 'snowstorm' settle out in front in the middle of summer.

My sentiments as well.

BTW, the 577's and up really are not good stopping rifles. They lack penetration. 416-470 max cal seems to be the way to go.

Gentlemen (and ladies)
Please don't waste your time and money on a Sabatti .45/70. The forend irons are too soft and wear out prematurely. This will make your gun almost impossible to open, due to the hammers not being cocked soon enough to get the firing pins away from the primers. Sabatti double rifles are garbage! Look good in the gun rack, I guess, but don't plan on shooting them more than 20 or so times.

This is the only report of a bad one from many reports they are a fine rifle for the money. He didn't pay much (comparatively speaking)so he's not out that much. Have you sent it to a real `smith that knows D/R's inside and out for assesment and repairs? JJ Pederou at Camplains in Enid OK. would be my first choice.

Uh, $3000 is a lot to me sir. Things must be bigger in Alaska, especially paychecks! (j/k)

And shouldn't a new gun work fine? Not to sound insulting to you, but I don't think that I will ever be happy with a $3000 new gun that has to be worked on. And this report is based on handling two brand new examples at Cabelas. The "deluxe" model may be ok, but the $3000 one should be avoided. I'm just warning yall, ok? Go get one, and shoot it a lot, and I think you'll be sorry.

I have a Chapuis( as well at 9 others) that was built for me personally and It's still stiff opening. I've got over 400 rounds thru it too. It's getting better but it's far from easy opening.
Another is a 450 NE by Searcy that is better but still new enough that it's not free. My 1906 Hollis 500/450 is sweet because it's got over a hundred years of use. I bet it was somewhat stiff when it was new too.
I'm not saying that I'd toss $3K out the window, but compare that to the price of another D/R.. It's cheap! Contact JJ Pederou at Camplains in Enid OK and discuss this for repairs needed.

Hate to bore everyone with this, but this is the issue with these guns. I'm going to start basic, so bear with me.

After you fire your double, you unlock the breach, and swing the barrels down. As you do this, there are rods in the action that are connected to the forend that push the hammers back, eventually cocking the gun.

What happens on the Sabattis that I have had contact with is this:

After you fire, obviously the hammers are down, firing pins are forward. You unlatch your gun and start to swing the barrels down. The problem is, the rods that push the hammers back don't push them back far enough, soon enough. So you have to literally shove the fired primer past the firing pin. I know that's what is going on, because it leaves a mark, a "swipe" on the primer where you can see the firing pin dragging across the primer.

The other problem is, in BOTH guns I've seen, there was a very similar defect in the muzzle. This one is harder to explain, but it looks like a little dished out triangle, like someone had a reamer of some kind in there and instead of the reamer being straight up and down, they pushed it over to one side and took a chunk of metal out. I've NEVER seen anything like this on a new gun. Maybe an old .22LR pump that someone cleaned for 50 years from the muzzle, but never on a new gun.

The best part is, rather than put new barrels on the gun, EAA just polished and cold blued the areas with the missing metal!!?!?

Look folks, I just can't sit around and not say anything about these guns. I don't have one bit of skin in the game, but I know that I was so disappointed that I was physically ill. And it wasn't even my gun--it was my father's. His boyhood dream. And the gun was a total lump.

Bottom line: I've seen two of these Sabatti double rifles, and both of them suffered the same two defects. A gun should open after its fired. Without breaking it over your leg. Maybe its coincidence. But I wouldn't bet on it.

I suggest that you discuss this with the folks that are happy campers with theirs over in the D/R section of AR. There's several that have many rounds down the pipes so far.