Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 30-06 vs the 300 Win mag

dont you guys believe in killing animals extra dead???



ive had ( or still have) 30-06 .300win .300wsm and .300wby the wby and the .300win are still around the other two are gone. its hard to argue the history of the .30-06, but i prefer to use 180gr bullets in my .300's and load 30-06's with 165gr and lighter bullets.

FC363-
Nosler's #4 manual gives the 180 Protected Point (PP)a BC of .361 and the 180 Ballistic Tip a BC of .507 which is the same as the 180 Accubond (AB).I'll use the #4 manual figures which lists the BT but was before the A/bond came out because their tables are a little more user friendly. If "assumed" velocities of the two cartridges are 2700 fps for the '06 and 3000 fps for the 300 Mag here are their numbers. Yes I know that some 180, 300 Mag loads go above 3000 and some '06's will push 180's above 2700. My bud's 300 Mag went just over 3000 with the Federal PP load and my '06 goes a little over 2700 with my handload.

30/06, 180 AB or BT @2700
Range Vel Energy Traj
100 2524 2547 +2
200 2355 2217 0
300 2193 1922 -8.3
400 2037 1658 -23.8
500 1887 1423 -47.5
600 1748 1218 -81.4


300 Mag 180 PP @3000
100 2738 2997 +1.6
200 2492 2481 0
300 2258 2038 -7.2
400 2037 1659 -21.2
500 1829 1337 -43.5
600 1638 1072 -76.8
I guess the higher muzzle velocity flattens the first portion of the trajectory so much, it'll take farther than 600 yards for the AB to catch up. I can't explain it but that's what Nosler's numbers say--
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NRA Patron

My good friend Allen Day (RIP) loved his 300 Win Mag, even took a Cape Buffalo with it(it's on film on one of Mark Sullivan's videos). He pretty much hunted the world with it and had a lot of experience with both cartridges. He says the difference was there and I believe him. In my own experience I've never shot the Win Mag much but have the 06 and my favorite, the 300 Weatherby and I can tell you there's a noticealble difference in killing power, at least from what I've observed.

That's what I was trying to convey above. I'm thinking that many folks don't see the difference in comparing them on smaller stuff. It's only at long distance or on the larger animals where you really begin to notice the meaningful difference. Still, I like the ought-six which kills just as dead even if it doesn't do it with as much notice.

Allen also liked the 30-06.

There's a slightly noticeable difference in the way large animals react to a hit (300 WM vs 30-06), but I am positive there is no kill situation that couldn't be done neatly with either. Maybe critters go another 5 yards when hit with the 30-06... maybe.

In terms of reaction to hits, I feel/think/am pretty darn certain that I notice the diff in reaction to hits when ranges begin to get out there a bit.

Sub 300 or so I can't tell much diff tween say my 270 and my 7 Mashburn. But, when the ranges hit close to 400 and out then IME there is a decided difference. I've a ton load more experience with these two than I do the 06 and big 30's. But feel certain that the same thing will come into effect.

Sort of like the diff tween the 223 and the 22/250. As the range on small big game (deer/lopes) extends there is a decided diff tween how the game reacts to the hits. As well the 243 and the 6/06.

But, if directed properly they all take the old Nozler Nap fairly quickly...grin

I just happen to like to hit game animals and get a similar reaction to when one hits a gopher with a 9 iron. And please....don't ask me now I know how that one works...grins

Dober

This "reaction to hits" thing is hard for me to pin down sometimes,and I have seen it enough myself to be able to draw no firm conclusions. I have noticed that more potent cartridges seem to hit harder,kill very suddenly, but IME this has only been where bullets landed in the right place.Hit them wrong with either cartridge and they react alright....you have problems onyour hands, and I have about concluded that a 300 Magnum offers nothing in the way of extra insurance when animals are hit poorly.

Elk guides I know,and who have seen a lot of the big deer killed,have told me the elk react somewhat more to the hits from a big 30 than from an 06;and based on what I have seen myself I would sort of agree;but the funny thing is that with "good"hits with both,the elk simply do not make many tracks.

I watched my brother hit a big bodied 5x5 with a 30/06 and 165 Partition at about 300 yards; it was well placed(heart shot) and the elk shuddered and stepped behind a tree,where my brother could not see to shoot again,so I cut loose with a 180 gr from a 300 Win,which ended things right there.

I have seen a brown bear killed with a 300 Weatherby and was impressed by how easily it died.After watching numerous stuff get shot with 300 mags and 30/06's with good bullets,including my own, I have sort of come to the conclusion that most game over here is really not at all "tough"if hit properly the first time.

As to trajectory issues I have never seen a 30/06 load with any bullets that can hang with a 300 Win or Weatherby to 400-600 yards,if both are loaded to their full potential,sighted in the same at 100 yards(or whatever)and assuming the same bullets.A 300 Weatherby will hit 3200 fps with a 180 as easily as a 30/06 hits 2800 with the same bullets;that is a diff of 400 fps,and the 30/06 will simply never catch up.While the use of a sleeker bullet in the 30/06 might close the gap somewhat,the "advantage" will not be seen until WAY past 600 yards,if then.

Your post implies that both bullets are at the SAME velocity. My contention is that two bullets at the same velocity will NOT have the same downrange energy, velocity, drop, or drift at 400yds if the B.C. is not the same. A 180gr bullet from and '06 and a 180gr bullet from the .300WM are not comperable no matter what shape they are, if they are both launched at the same velocity, and the velocity listed on the back of most factory boxed ammo is quite "optimistic".

FC363-
If you will look at my original post and the portion that you quoted twice, you'll see it says "the '06 is right along with it in velocity/energy OUT AT 400yds" (emphasis added). It says nothing about FROM MUZZLE TO 400 yds or that they have the same muzzle velocity.
If you look carefully at the velocity,energy and trajectory figures I quoted from the Nosler guide you'll see that the low BC of the relatively blunt Nosler Protected Point exacts a big toll on the Magnums initial velocity advantage and given the velocities I assumed the two loads DO have the same velocity/energy AT 400 yds but the Magnum IS flatter shooting by a couple inches.
I've pored over lots of ballistics tables since I started reloading in '66 and my intended point was to indicate how much bullet selection can affect downrange performance, nothing else.
BTW the velocities I used were chronographed from my and my bud's rifles on the same day and not taken off a cartridge box since as you say they are usually pretty optimistic .
Hope that clears it up.

The -06 isn't a .300 magnum. But, inside maybe 300 yards (and few of us should shoot anything that far away) and smaller than Alaskan brown bear, it won't matter in the field. And, inside 150 yards with a 200/220 gr. bullet I'd not hesitate to take on the biggest of bears with my -06.

I have and like both calibers. The .06 has been my all time favorite for about 40 years, and I have taken a semi truck load of game with the .06. I also like the .300WM a lot! However I view the .300s as a more specialized rig, made for long shots at medium sized game. They need a longer barrel to help gain the added velocities, making them a little less handy in the thick stuff, and because of the higher velocities (mine spit's a 180 @ 3,167 fps), a more expensive, premium bullet is needed at close range to avoid bullet blow up, and loss of edible meat.

Another way to look at it is this:
For every game animal out there, there is a better matched cartridge then the old .06.
BUT, there is no better cartridge for ALL the medium game animals then the 'ol .06!