Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire Topics I have found to be controversial.

Sanlen,

I was very clear about there being things in Christ we do not compromise on. However, those are rarely the controversial issues that create so much division. Here I am talking about believing, evangelical Christians. There is much disagreement with non-believers over most everything.

The key is scripture being of "no private interpretation". There is one truth, one intrepretation. However there are many applications and different ways fo looking at the same truth.

It's like a sattelite flying over Mars and taking a picture of a big rock. It starts taking pictures as it approaches, keeps taking pictures as it passes overhead, and doesn't stop taking pictures until it is completely past. The first and last pictures amy look so different that they don't even look like pics of the same rock. However, if you had ALL the pictures, you could clearly see they were all of the same rock but just showed different aspects of that rock.

God is the only one who has all the pictures. He has not chosen to show us all the pictures in many of these areas. That is our glory to search those things out.

So, when someone tells me the only way a Christian can believe about the origin and devlopment of life is the young earth creation model, I immediately know he has not studied the topic and not even really studied the word in this area. He is being dogmatic about an issue God didn't explain to us in detail, and as such he is functioning in pride.

Now if he tells me he understands there are other opinions, but he believes the young earth model best fits the scripture and the physical evidence, then I have no issue with that. We can discuss the merits of the ideas without letting ego become involved.

I have been at this a long time, and I suppose one of the biggest problems I see is when folks cannot differentiate between the unshakable, uncompromising concepts of Salvation, Grace, Atonement, Sanctification, Diety of Christ--which God has clearly and plainly made known; and the issues God has not been as plain on, the issues He wants us to search out, the issues that seem to create so much contention and strife.

Blaine

Good post. Thanks

Jerry

I did, but you can't take it. All your other scriptures are just apostolic instructions to the leaders of various churches. Of course leaders need to keep sin from their flocks. But that's not the context of the scripture I quoted. That scripture's general, and applies to all of us.

What's that thing in your eye??
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've always tryed to be as tolerant as I needed to see somebody saved. Jesus was tremendously tolerant of sin but had no time for unbelief or lack of faith. Tolerance does not mean acceptance.

RickD,

Jesus tolerant of sin?? He said, Go and SIN NO MORE. Sounds to me like he didn't tolerate it. He condemns sin in the flesh. Romans 8:3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh."

Did he tolerate the money changers in the temple?

He forgives sin, but he does not tolerate it. To make his point on his lack of tolerance for sin, he was scourged, beaten, had his beard plucked out and went to the cross and died for sin. He did that for you and me because he would not "tolerate" a sinful person in the presence of a holy God.

the Shootist,
Christ tolerates sinners and not sin is maybe what I should have said. Jesus certainly did not accept her sin but I believe the woman taken to him by the rock chuckin' mob found him quite a bit more tolerant of her than they had been. He told her He did not condemn her and to sin no more. Is that intolerance? Of the sin, yes, but of her, no.

We know He loves us all and desires all saved while hating the sin in mens lives. I cannot fathom how He could have came to live among us if He was not prepared to tolerate sinful man. Unless there is middle ground between tolerance and intolerance or I'm missing something.

I understand that He made a way for us to go boldly before the throne of God and that could never have been possible if we were covered in sin and not His Blood. I know He translated us from the law of sin and death into Grace by His atonement and our faith in Him. But that was because God so loved the world, not because He couldn't tolerate it. But again it's mankind He's showing love for and not their sin. I have long believed that if God could lay aside paradise and take on flesh to live among those in all manner of sins that He had emnity with, it was a lesson in tolerance for me.

Maybe some will not like this but I have seen the damage intolerance of people does in all manner of situations and cannot find God in it.

So, for the truth's sake, do we tolerate error?

Error and people seem like apples and oranges, to me. Didn't He tolerate the woman but instruct her to refrain from her error? Looks to me like He tolerated lots of sinful people. The woman at the well, the tax collector, Roman soliders, and so many others who were sinful. Those He was intolerant or short with were the ones who had perverted His Word, or lacked the faith they should have had after His demonstrations of who He was.

Maybe our definitions clash. I'm considering tolerate as to "put up with something or somebody unpleasant" or "allow the presence of without opposing or prohibiting". That I see Him do with people and while He was on earth He would have been in the presence of those who must have been very unpleasant to Him. His love must have overrode that unpleasantness.

Your admonition that He does not tolerate sin, is right on and I mis-posted sin rather than sinner. I know He can separate the two much better then we can, and I proved it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I am a newcomer to internet forums in general, and this one in particular. I have been 'lurking', reading threads, and occasionally inserting my 2 cents. This is my first time on the 'Christ at the Campfire' forum. I read 4 pages of such contentiousness that I literally wept! Are we not all children of God? Are we not all Christians, so long as we believe that salvation lies only thru Him? You should be arguing with the likes of Big Stick, who recently dismissed ALL religions as "Mumbo-Jumbo, trinkets, and fairy tales".
I am a simple man. I work, read, go to church, and try to do the best I can. I freely admit to being imperfect, human, and a sinner, but I try to do better. Most all of you are far more knowedgeable in the Bible than I, so I will not embarrass myself by trying to quote, but on the day of His crucifiction, when the thief said "Surely, you are the Son of God", Jesus responded, "This day, you will be with me in Paradise." Jesus is God, He saw into the thief's heart, and saw that he was sincere, and that's all it took! This passage (I know I haven't quoted it accurately) gives me great peace, because in the final analysis, faith trumps all sins. Perhaps I am simplistic, and perhaps I should not be posting on this forum with more educated believers, but if you have such a narrow view of salvation, Heaven will be a lonely place indeed. God's wish, I believe, was for ALL men to be saved.
I didn't mean to offend anyone, and you may hit the 'ignore' button now, if you care to.

Joe,

You are right in much of what you say. This particular thread is on controversial topics. Sometimes things get carried a little too far, for sure. "Iron sharpeneth iron, so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17

When you sharpen a knife or an axe or a saw with a file or a steel, you rearrange the molecules in the steel. You grind some of the outside off. You reshape the thing. Sometimes it makes a little noise. Sometimes it even hurts. Sometimes the object being sharpened resists the sharpening instrument. But in the end, the object is a little sharper. That's what these discussions CAN do. They don't always accomplish a sharpening. Sometimes the steel goes across the grain of the knife and it gets duller. But you keep pluggin' away at it.

As far as you being uneducated . . . . . me too. I got a highschool diploma . . . . that's it. It's not about a skull full of facts. It's about a heart full of the Lord.

If you are simplistic, that is a good thing. Here's a couple verses to ponder on that very thing.

2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

The narrow view of salvation, I don't fully understand where you are coming from, because I am a simpleton. Jesus said that the way to life is narrow, and few there be that find it, but there is a broad path to destruction and many go in at it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Hang around, and put some posts up. Sometimes when the guys here lay it on each other it works to toughen us up. Kinda like sparring. Some (and even me sometimes) get a little weak kneed and sissified, and so I need a little kick every once in a while. There's always someone to do it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Joe,
Welcome!! You sure haven't offended me. Much of what you say is true and shows me what folks not accustom to the banter in here might think. I hope you'll share with us whenever you feel the urge. Fresh perspectives are very welcomed, at least by me.

Thick skin does help, though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We've all heard that politics and religion are not polite topics of discussion. I think they meant they're not discussed politely. It doesn't hurt to be challenged in what you believe and why you believe it. I enjoy that. It does grieve my Spirit when tempers flare and the walls come up. Everyone has hot buttons and some know just how to push them.............or so it would seem. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

All in all, a fun bunch!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We do have one thing in common: our love for Jesus and His gift of salvation. That's a huge common denominator, even though it may not show in our "discussions".

Hope to see ya around!

Rick

the_shootist

Good post to Joe.

Joe, welcome to the forum.

Ringman? Are you okay? Twice in one day? I take back what I said in the other post. You definitely must be wrong this time!

Thanks to all...
I just remember what my dear father taught me - 'Honey draws more flies than vinegar!'

That's good if you're looking for flies! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Shootist,

I appreciated your post,too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Joe,

I think I can emphasize with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Thank you for your reminder to all of us, done in love. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />