Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire A brand new "Cadillac":

RickD,
Roman Catholicism is not a Christian denomination. It is another gospel, another religion outside true Christianity.
Love demands that a Christian state the truth of the Bible. Love is not Biblical love unless it is in truth.
If your child wanted to play in the street where cars were speeding, it would not be love to say OK so that he would not cry or be offended.
The same goes for the unsaved and those who follow false religions, which includes Roman Catholicism and Mormonism.

Your spirit is deceived if you think that to state the truth is not of God. Trust the Bible and not your spirit unless it is witnessing to the truth of the Bible. In this case your spirit is incorrect.

Jesus said that most would turn away. Most will be offended at the truth of the Gospel. I am charged to tell them the truth, and if they are offended then that is their choice. It is a Christ said it would be. He told us that most would hate us, because they hated Him.

Here is what Paul said about those who give a false gospel, as the religions in question do. Note how diplomatic he was.

Galatians 1:6 �I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

SU35,
[I suggest jmartin, tell our host and catholic, Rick Bin that he is not a Christian as well.

Maybe jmartin shouldnt post on this particular forum, God forbid he get his hands dirty posting on a non-Christian hosted forum.]

Regardless of who or what anyone is, if he is a Roman Catholic he is not a Christian. I will not compromise the truth of the Bible to be either accepted or liked on ANY forum. I guess if you would, then that is your compromise. I don�t compromise my faith or the truth.

I don�t get my hands dirty posting here, but instead will give the truth here or anywhere else that I get the opportunity. My hands remain clean regardless of the response.

It is always interesting that when one has not substance with which to argue, he tries to make me the issue. That is essentially what you and others who object have done. If you don�t like what the Gospel says, then fuss at God. He is the Author.

But, as a messenger I expect to get railed at because most don�t like the message.

I would like to make it clear that I do not have either the responsibility or capability to get anyone saved. That is God�s work. I am tasked to give the Gospel, and the hearer does as he wills.

The Parable of the Sower, in Luke 8, is an excellent example of how folks respond to the gospel. Note the results depended upon the heart of the hearer ( the soil) and not the seed (message) or the messenger (sower). The seed was all good, but the soils were not.

So people get turned off and turn away from the message, as here on this forum? That is the way it is, has been and will be until Christ returns. They will not come to Christ and Truth if they are not told. Some of you say just to love and not offend. Then you compliment one who has fallen into a false religion. That is compromising the Faith.

Unfortunately, today many who profess to be, and some who truly are, Christians do not know the Scripture, and if they do they do not have the courage to do that which is unpopular, (PC) and as a result they let people die and go to Hell without giving them the truth.

On this thread I have given the truth as copied from the Bible. I have also given the doctrine of the RCC, as stated in their official documents. I have compared the two and pointed out the differences.

Now it is up to all to do as they will. Their decisions are like of those of the two thieves on the Cross. One believed and was saved, while the other scoffed at the truth and went into an eternity apart from God.

Each of you is free to make whatever decision you will. Serve whatever god you will. I will serve the Living God, and give His truth when the opportunity arises.

Jerry

"It is so obvious that the RC doctrine contradicts the clear teaching of the Bible, and in the basics/fundamentals of the Christian faith. It is not Christian."

And now the third limb gets stuck in the tar baby. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"Mormonism is not a denomination, Its a abomination."

Oh, really. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Did you ever meet any Mormons and discuss this with them? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

IndyCA35

Yes, I have. In fact I have a nephew who is a Mormon, and another who is Roman Catholic.
Both have been told the truth.

Neither were offended as near as I could tell. They knew and know my motives, and that I do love them.

From some posts here it appears that some of you are afraid to tell the truth either face-to-face or on a forum. Of course, most of you who object do not know what the Bible teaches.

Jerry

"Mormonism has its own jesus and its not the real Jesus."

Is the Jesus Christ in the bible not the real Jesus?

Here is the statement by Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, regarding God.

Following are from IS MORMONISM CHRISTIAN? By Gordon H. Fraser
CONCERNING GOD.
1. P 39. Mormon theologians have used the King Follett Discourse as Smith's (Joseph Smith) final word on the doctrines of God and man. The following excerpt is from it.
I am going to inquire after God: for I want you all to know him and be familiar with him�..I will go back to the beginning before the world want, to show you what kind of a being God is.
God was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens�.I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form�like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form of a man.
I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with him as one man with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ did.

In the History of the Church, Joseph Smith, Vol 6 p. 476, Smith sermonizing spelled it out as follows.
"I want to reason a little on this subject [of God's father]�If Abraham reasoned thus�If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John [doubtless the apostle] discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a father, you may suppose that He [God's father and Jesus' grandfather] had a father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? �Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly, hence if Jesus had a father, can we not believe that He [God] had a father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it!"


The god of the Momons, and the Jesus of the Mormons are are not the God and Jesus of the Bible. The founder of the religion has shown that by his own teachings.

Jerry

jmartin,

Have you read the book, "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome"? Excelent book by Charles Chiniquy (pronounced "chin-i-kee"). He was in the Roman church for (you guessed it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) 50 years. He was a priest for 25 years. He exposes the Roman church for what it really is. I guess he would be proof, though, that there are individuals in the RC that really are searching for truth. As a rule, I really think people will move on a lot sooner than Chiniquy did if they love the truth. But I think God had him in there so long for a reason. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No I have not, but it sounds as if it is interesting and useful. I'll check into it.

I know that there are those searching for the truth.

One of my very dearest friends from the early 1960s and his family are RC. They are wonderful people.

My wife and I visited them about a year ago. I got a chance to talk to him about faith.

He thinks that he obeys the 10 Commandments. I decided not to challenge that per se. However, I asked him if he loved God with all his heart, mind, and soul. He replied, "Yes."
Knowing that he had never read the Bible, by his own admission, I said to him, "If you really love God with all your heart, mind and soul, then why do you not care what He has said. Why have you not one time read His Word to you?"

He was stunned, and after a few seconds admitted that it was a good question. He said he would read it, even though he did not think he could understand it. He did start, but has not gotten very far.

I recommended that he read Romans as Luther had done, and the Gospel of John. Then to read the whole Bible. I am confident that he is attempting to do as he said, and I ask him about it often.
I pray that the Holy Spirit will open his eyes and he will be saved. Unfortunately he had said that he could not leave the RC religion because of his wife and all his family.

I will continue trying to help him to understand. It is often difficult to make fine wonderful people, by our human standards, realize that they are unacceptable to God.

I have a next door neighbor that thinks he is good enough, even though he knows he is not perfect. I'll keep trying to make him see also. He is not a RC or anything as far as he will admit.
Whaat a blessing it would be to see those fine friends and people come to Christ.

Thanks,
Jerry

SU35,
Some denominations have serious doctrinal conflict with the Scripture, and for those who fully believe all "problem" doctrines, they truly need revelation. But many don't believe them all. Even so, I cannot remember any confrontational and polarizing approaches connected to revelation in the New Testament. No force feeding of the Gospel, comes to mind.

Many people are born into denominations and the more variances with Scripture they have, the more "clingy" they become by associating family, and creating feelings of strong denominational community, with faith. That often ties most people into them for life, regardless how seriously flawed some of the denominations teachings are. Many folks in these faiths understand the aspects of doctrine that separate them from the traditional protestant denominations and have discarded some and question others. Some to the point of salvation.

Certainly some accept all of this doctrine, inherited or acquired, but they have their proofs and answers, usually supported in multiple media publications, just like we do.

I believe confrontational critiques of denominations can only fail. It drives the sold out proponent into their talking point proofs and confirms what they were warned about concerning "heretics like you". (Certainly I am not calling you a heretic but their doctrines often do in their apologetics.)

For those already seeing issues between their doctrine and scripture, heavy handing the Gospel will almost certainly not make them want the kind of faith they see coming their way.

Truth is, I believe many folks get saved in all these churches. I believe the Holy Spirit is that powerful and the truth of the Gospel so plain and compelling, that those who read it seeking Truth find it, and those who read it to tear it down, often get torn down by it and then rebuilt as saved as you and I. Some leave and some stay because leaving means losing family and friends.

If we assault these people who are seeking Jesus, or lost and yet so near to Him, under the pretense of His Name, where is God's Glory in that? What are they, and others watching, to think and how does it advance His Kingdom? If we keep them away from us by the methods we would use to attract them, we all lose and the devil wins. No one wants that.

I believe there are better ways that can be much more successful but they take more of a commitment from those who would help these people find revelation. Real success will come if folks remain in the denomination with a full understanding and acceptance of Scripture and can change lives close to them. It will take more of a commitment from me because now I see I can't just read the books and learn the "facts" and spout them when the JV's call or other opportunities present themselves. Now I have to model my life after His and do all I can so that I have what they want. People give credibility to those who have what they want.

If my life does not compel folks to want to come to my church or ask me for counsel or prayer, I figure I'm missing some important things, and don't have much basis for criticizing others. Once folks start asking questions of faith and for prayer, there's no need to criticize, only answer and pray. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I haven't seen many churches who claim to love the truth bustin' at the seams and not many saints followed around for counsel. Some are and God be Praised! But is that not what we are called to do? To be a light to the world?

I don't think any of these denominations will ever be changed completely. I'd venture the time is too short, but think of those who might still be added to His Kingdom if it starts with just a few!

And for those reading this who are insulted that I am talking about your faith, remember we are talking about the Truth of the Gospel. It will emerge whether I am wrong, you are wrong, or we're all wrong. God cannot lie and His Word will not come back void.

But if folks still believe they find truth in bad doctrine, what more can I do? Maybe one last frank presentation of the Truth's they have missed. Then it's just time to move on but I'm gonna try not to leave any dead in the dust. You never know who the Spirit may send next to reach them and I don't want to poison the soil for the seeds they bring.

RickyD,

I am persuaded that most of the denominations today have departed from the faith.

I know of a couple of Southern Baptist churches in my town that are searching for pastors. Both of those local churches have become liberal in much of their doctrine and practices.
Today I was talking to a friend in the gym about it. He attends one of those churches. I told him that if a fundamental pastor, like the SB of yesteryear, came to the church, he would cause a split in the church. He agreed, and we both agreed that they probably not get a fundamental (one who believes the Bible literally, and seeks to follow it to the best of his knowledge and abilities) pastor, but a split would be inevitable.
Their song leader was also at the gym and he had said to my friend that the church had to change with the culture. That person got angry with me a couple of years ago because I told him the churches were liberal. His statement today confirms that.

The church, and Christians, as light and salt are to change society, and not conform to the world so that the church will attract many worldly people who remain worldly.

In this city of about 80-90,000 people, there is only about two churches I could attend and participate in. Maybe only one, and that is the one I am in.

We are in the Laodicean church age, and it is very obvious.

Jerry

mrmarklin
It seems you attribute that quote to me, but I don't believe I wrote that. Not sure who did. Works and fruit evidence salvation but don't account for it.

I do agree with that!

You are sadly wrong. The number of verses saying so are so numerous that it isn't even worth going into. We could start with the whole book of Romans. Simply stated though, you are missing the whole purpose of salvation, God's plan as He has delivered it to man, and the glory that He reserves only for Himself. God will share His glory with no one, and He will not allow anyone to one day stand up and say, "I'm really grateful for salvatio0n, even though I did part of it myself". That just isn't going to happen......

There are purposes for deeds in a Christian's life, but none of them have anything to do with salvation. To say such a thing would mean that the Bible is full of contradictions, and it just isn't. Faith without works is dead, but that does not mean, and James never says, that they are needed for salvation.

Salvation is the starting point, and why many people celabrate two birthdays, one their physical birth, the other their spiritual birth. Only after their spiritual rebirth can works for God even take place.

What are your thoughts about the idea of being "born again"? How do you define it? I'm curious. Savation is a free gift. It cannot be earned, nor bartered for. Christ paid all the cost, and to Him is all the glory. It was He who said, "Ye must be born again". Please answer me one question, (okay, two): What did He mean by that? And, what does it entail?

wuzzagrunt:

Congratulations to your son on a fine Roman Catholic baptism, the only kind there was for the first 1,500 years of the Christian Church's existence, I don't mind adding. He joins a group of Christians more numerous than all baptized Protestants combined.

To all my Protestant brethren, let it be known that I am married to an evangelical charismatic Pentecostal Protestant. My in-laws are elders in a strongly Charismatic church. I would never presume to insult her or their beliefs, nor those of the many Protestants for whom I have great respect, among them our own Dr. Howell. My prior comments are in no way intended to disrespect any denomination, nor Protestantism as a whole. I truly believe we are all brothers in Christ.

But I won't stand by and let some self-appointed false messiah insult Catholics with ridiculous and divisive claims under the guise of bringing me salvation, his way or no way. Nor do I appreciate the hijacking of a thread in which congratulations were in order for the sake of somebody's need to buttress his insecurity.

And I will say to all that this Christ At The Campfire forum was started by a Roman Catholic with the express intent to include all Christians in the discussion. Anyone who thinks they can come here and unilaterally EXCLUDE Roman Catholics or any other Christian denomination not to their liking from a Christian discussion forum needs to:

A] Learn some respect;
B] Gain some perspective;
C] Pay their own light bill.

God bless you all (and He does).

Rick Bin
Proud Roman Catholic

And this is one time where I insist on the final word.

Congrats to your son, wuzzagrunt, from the Bins!!