Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Rick Teal- some scoring Qs

Thanks for doing this.




1) He didn't grow a measurable G5 in the normal position on his left; there is only a bump. On the score sheet do I pair up G5s as 9" right / 0" left? Or do I call the next point after the left G4, the first one of the 'crown', the G5 (paired as 9" right / 3:1 left)?

2) Is the center point of the 'crown' on his left classified as an abnormal point or as a Gx?

3) What is the baseline of that center point, coming out of the middle of the web of the other two points?

4) How does one determine the "tip" of a point that is broken; especially tips broken at an angle, not perpendicular to the tine?
(I know that's nit-picking, just a matter of an eighth or three, but I like to get things right.)

5) Along which surface are G1s and G2s measured- along their outer curves, therefore the tape begins on the underside (down-side, ground-side), of the antler; or directly from the side, as the dotted line (shown from a side view, centered on the side of the tine) drawing on the score sheet seems to imply?


6) A quarter-inch wide steel tape. Does that mean that it's common for base measurements to be somewhat exaggerated because the tape rides over the little (sometimes big) bumps common there (vs core antler circumference)? Just asking.

BTT

Macrabbit:

I've been away on personal stuff for a few days, but now I'll attempt to answer your questions.

You really threw me a screwball here with this being a Roosevelt or Tule elk rather than the American elk I've measured before. Also they have a few unusual features that strain my experience. For the best answers you'd best go to a measurer out there who has experience with these racks.

That being said, I'll take a shot anyway.

Its hard to tell from this one picture, so I don't know what the configuration of the lower points on the rack is. It's hard for me to tell which points you feel are the G1s to G4s.
There seems to be an extra point at the brow on the right antler, and it might be branched. If that's the case it would be an abnormal point and a deduction.

The very long point jutting forward on the right antler appears to be one of: a) abnormal, b) G3, or c) G4.

A few other pictures might clear this up.

By position and configuration (though not length), the point above this long point appears to be the G4.

I'll try to deal with your questions now.

1) A non matched G5 would be matched against "0" and not contribute to the score, however, points above the G4 can be considered to be crown points, and from this one picture, the broken point appears to rise from a different plane than the G4, and may be a crown point.

2) From this shot, the farthest left point seems to be the end of the main beam, and if so the other two would be Crown points.

3) You would establish the top of the main beam out to (I believe) the farthest left point. Using this line you have to determine whether you have two points sharing a common base or if one point branches from the other. If they share a common base both are measured from the line you established as the top of the main beam. If there's a branching, you have to establish the "top" of the first point and measure the branched point from that line.

4) I would establish the lengthy of the point using a straight edge at right angles to the growth line to the longest tip of the broken point and measure to that line.

5) Establish the line of the main beam (as if the point was absent) and measure along the outer curve of the point. If the starting point can't be established at the outside curve, go from the nearest spot where it can be established and gradually drape the tape toward the curved surface, and than proceed to the tip. Its as much an art as a science, and is best taught hands-on.

6) Yes, you go over the "bumps" unless they're exaggerated where we have to get creative. One of the reasons the smallest circumference is taken and there is side-to-side matching is to eliminate any undue advantage this might give to a rack.

Welcome back.

It's a standard elk, courtesy of eastern Nevada.
No funky brows. The bright sunlight was fooling you.





1) He didn't grow a measurable G5 in the normal position on his left; there is only a bump. On the score sheet do I pair up G5s as 9" right / 0" left? Or do I call the next point after the left G4, the first one of the 'crown', the G5 (paired as 9" right / 3:1 left)?
1) A non matched G5 would be matched against "0" and not contribute to the score, however, points above the G4 can be considered to be crown points, and from this one picture, the broken point appears to rise from a different plane than the G4, and may be a crown point.
With the new pics involved, does that ungrown bump (it's not broken) on the left count as a 0" G5?





2) Is the center point of the 'crown' on his left classified as an abnormal point or as a Gx?
2) From this shot, the farthest left point seems to be the end of the main beam, and if so the other two would be Crown points.
Now that we've established him as a Rocky Mountain elk, so no normal crown expected and treated as such, do you consider the three points at the end of his left as: main beam/abnormal/G6, or main beam/abnormal/abnormal, or main beam/G7/G6?

3) What is the baseline of that center point, coming out of the middle of the web of the other two points?
3) You would establish the top of the main beam out to (I believe) the farthest left point. Using this line you have to determine whether you have two points sharing a common base or if one point branches from the other. If they share a common base both are measured from the line you established as the top of the main beam. If there's a branching, you have to establish the "top" of the first point and measure the branched point from that line.
Closer pic- any new thoughts?

4) How does one determine the "tip" of a point that is broken; especially tips broken at an angle, not perpendicular to the tine?
(I know that's nit-picking, just a matter of an eighth or three, but I like to get things right.)
4) I would establish the lengthy of the point using a straight edge at right angles to the growth line to the longest tip of the broken point and measure to that line.
So, like this:


And not like this?:




5) Along which surface are G1s and G2s measured- along their outer curves, therefore the tape begins on the underside (down-side, ground-side), of the antler; or directly from the side, as the dotted line (shown from a side view, centered on the side of the tine) drawing on the score sheet seems to imply?
5) Establish the line of the main beam (as if the point was absent) and measure along the outer curve of the point. If the starting point can't be established at the outside curve, go from the nearest spot where it can be established and gradually drape the tape toward the curved surface, and than proceed to the tip. Its as much an art as a science, and is best taught hands-on.
OK


6) A quarter-inch wide steel tape. Does that mean that it's common for base measurements to be somewhat exaggerated because the tape rides over the little (sometimes big) bumps common there (vs core antler circumference)? Just asking.
6) Yes, you go over the "bumps" unless they're exaggerated where we have to get creative. One of the reasons the smallest circumference is taken and there is side-to-side matching is to eliminate any undue advantage this might give to a rack.
OK

Thanks for doing this.

This bull from the Ely area?

That's an affirmative.

I think we might have seen him once, maybe 3 yrs ago? Get him this year?

In the interest of keeping this thread on track, I've responded to you HERE in my hunt report thread.