Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Going tankless

Glad to hear you have a contractor involved. There's much more to installing a tankless and getting proper operation than there is to a tank style water heater. Things like vent length, number of elbows in the vent, incoming gas pressure, gas pipe sizing, etc.

I hope you went with a high efficiency model so that you can take advantage of the energy tax credits that are going to expire at the end of the month. You can get a tax credit of 30% for up to $1,500 for qualifying units. Google Energystar.gov for more details.

Unless this is a model of Rinnai that I haven't heard about yet there will need to be a small stand alone electric water heater and some additional piping and valving to add a recirculating pump and line to the Rinnai. Unlike some other units out there like the Navien and Eternal, the Rinnai does not have its own tank to provide the water for recirculation. Simply connecting the 'circ pump and line to the Rinnai will trigger the burner of the Rinnai to fire as it senses water flowing through itself.

Talk to your contractor about this.

New house will be all electric.. So any tankless heater's gotta keep up.. I sent the link for the Steibel/Eltron units over to the builder..

Gas, natural or propane, is not an option..

Went through this whole idea about 6 months ago. Total out the door package to install a very good system, new dedicated 220 box or outlet, water softener and all labor was going to be in the $5,000 range. The heck you say. I was only looking to save on the electric bill. I'll just pay the bill.

Someone is making a heat pump water heater of some sort, will look into that as time allows.

Hmmmm.. Five grand ya say... I can have a new water heater installed (80 gal) for a gee.... Four grand pays for lots of electricity..

Besides, (so far) electric rates where I'll be building are about 25% cheaper than here..

That's what I though on the 4 grand. Take a long time to recoup that money.

There are several heat pump water heaters on the market right now. Basically they operate as a tank type electric water heater that when left to recover at a low or no demand rate they heat the water at a slower rate with a lower rate of energy consumption. We're offering the GE version right now but, they aren't cheap either. It runs around $3,000 to do a swap out from a conventional electric to the heat pump water heater.

If you live in a northern climate and want hot water, install an outside wood (boiler) furnace! Last year I talked to one of my cousins from New Mexico who is a contractor and he said they didn't work efficiently in my area.

That sounds expensive in the long run. May I ask why ?

Kinda makes sense to me -- if the grid goes down, you can run everything off of the right sized generator, no worries if natural gas is shut off, etc.

Sure..

Only wood available is pine/spruce - so that's out. Heating oil's out.. I will not have gas.. That leaves electricity..

New house will be super-insulated - and only one level above ground..

Only if you have a nearly unlimited and free wood source (like - 80 acres of your own woods) and are young enough to go cut down, haul in the fill the thing.. They aren't cheap.. IIRC, one guy on here spent 13 grand to get his done.. And they go through a LOT of wood.. I heat my house here with a free-standing wood stove (cost me $200 35 years ago) and burn about 4 cords/year.. Easy to keep the temp inside 72-80F at 15% throttle.. Those outside furnaces can go through 10-15 cords+.. And you gotta go outside to stoke it..

That sounds expensive in the long run. May I ask why ?

Yeah, I'm having the electricians install a transfer box and outdoor plug for a 15kw generator.. If power goes south I can have the tractor fired up in minutes.. The neighbor in SD says electricity interruptions are very rare..

Power here gets knocked out at least once/year... And half the time it's a lightning bolt that hits my transformer.. I bet they've replaced it 3-4 times..

I did talk to him today. He said, just as you mentioned, that the recirc pump won't be a viable option for me, without the additional equipment.
Dang.

Yes I have installed the Navien and Eternal, they are spendy units but both have internal tanks for recirculation if you order that model, Many new units are energy savers they use PVC piping for Vents and Intake, then you must make sure you have a proper condensate drain,Good point on the storage tank for recirc with a standard tankless, Noritz will void the warranty if a circ line is installed without a storage tank, I generally use a 6 gallon electric water heater which adds to the installation cost with aquastats valving etc, the Eternal is probably the most impressive, it is all stainless steel with no copper pipe or fittings inside the unit, the heat exchanger is a very heavy gauge and the units seem to be very well built, so far at least if one has a large house, I use the remote Grundfoss pumps with 3 speeds and a timer, great setup, but these units are installed in homes in the 5k and up square footage, I am still an old school plumber and an old tank water heater is as simple as it gets, but with all the marketing and customers wanting these tankless units its a When in Rome thing, it all smells like money to me as its my trade.

Thanks for the reply. We've done a fair number of Rinnai and a few American (made by Rinnai) tankless heaters, but I've never sold or installed the Navien or Eternal. I hate like heck to tell a customer that I can't give a recommendation on a product because I haven't used one yet so any info you'd be willing to share about your experience with these units would be much appreciated.

Not sure which 3 speed Grundfos you're using. We typically use the little Grundfos circ pump with the built in timer. We found in the past that if we used a pump that moved too many GPMs we'd start to see issues with erosion on the copper pipe, particularly on the smaller diameter recirculating line due to increased velocity. We've since gone to using the small integral timer Grundfos and using pex pipe for the recirculating line, even on a copper pipe job.

Sorry for veering off topic a bit Mannlicher.

Make sure you have all your bases covered.My buddy bought a tankless and had it installed by a contractor.
Only problem is,there isnt anyone around to service it.
Sell it,install it,yes.
service it,no.
Even called one place recommended by the manufacturer,They came out ,and left without even trying.He and I ended up figuring out how to back flush it,and replaced the heat exchanger,and the circuit board.
That was last summer.I dont know if the situation has been fixed or not.

I just have to say Sam, that I'm really happy there was no picture of you peeling off your wife-beater tee shirt!

Be aware that high efficiency units have blower/fans and can be a bit noisy if installed where noise is a problem, Through the years most circ pumps were not on timers and ran 24/7 1/2 inch copper circ lines really had trouble with pinholes and leaks in the fittings due to the copper pipe not being reamed when installed, We now install pumps with timers as it is code,many times I ran across pumps with to much head pressure or volume that really gave the recirc line a workout, I know the area rep for Eternal and he could give you a pep talk about his unit, Navien is just a few miles away so I see the reps at the local plumbing supply's frequently doing little sales pitch seminars etc.
Fluffy, you make a very good point and one I always pass on to customers who really want a tankless, I will do a backflush and a quick once over if there is a problem with a unit I installed, if it is internal I call the area service rep for that brand, as here in So. Cal. they are abundant,

If you have hard water, forget it. They'll scale up pretty fast and require deliming w/ chemicals